Tilted Arc  

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Tilted Arc (1981-1989) was an art installation by Richard Serra, displayed in Foley Federal Plaza in Manhattan, NYC.

It consisted of a 120-foot-long, 12-foot-high solid, unfinished plate of rust-covered COR-TEN steel. It was a gently curved, 3.5 metre high arc of rusting mild steel. There was controversy over the installation from day one, largely from workers in the buildings surrounding the plaza who complained that the steel wall obstructed passage through the plaza.

Advocates characterized it as an important work by a well-known artist that transformed the space and advanced the concept of sculpture, whereas critics focused on its perceived ugliness and saw it as ruining the site. Following an acrimonious public debate, the sculpture was removed in 1989 as the result of a federal lawsuit and has never been publicly displayed since, in accordance with the artist's wishes. A public hearing in 1985 voted that the work should be moved, but Serra argued the sculpture was site specific and could not be placed anywhere else. Serra famously issued an often-quoted statement regarding the nature of site-specific art when he said, "To remove the work is to destroy it." Eventually on 15 March 1989, the sculpture was dismantled by federal workers and taken for scrap. William Gaddis satirized these events in his biting 1994 novel A Frolic of His Own.

A public hearing

A public hearing was held on the subject of the sculpture in March 1985, with 122 people testifying in favor of keeping the piece and 58 in favor of removing it. Notable speakers arguing in favor of the sculpture included Philip Glass, Keith Haring, and Claes Oldenburg. Artists, art historians, and even a psychiatrist testified for the sculpture to remain in its location. Local workers argued for removal, with one person saying: "Every time I pass this so-called sculpture I just can’t believe it ... The General Services Administration, or whoever approved this, this goes beyond the realm of stupidity. This goes into even worse than insanity. I think an insane person would say, ‘How crazy can you be to pay $175,000 for that rusted metal wall?' You would have to be insane— more than insane."

Full text of the public hearing

GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION

-X 2 3 IN THE MATTER OF : 4 5 A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE " TILTED ARC" OUTDOOR SCULPTURE LOCATED IN FRONT PLAZA OF JACOB JAVITS FEDERAL OFFICE BUILDING 1 6 7 8 9 1C -X Held at : couict Ceremonial Room International Trade Court One Federal Plaza New York, New York Wednesday , March 6 , 1985 10:05 a.m. , to 4:30 p.m. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 APPEARANCES : WILLIAM DIAMOND Regional Administrator General Services Administration GERALD TRETSKY Acting Deputy Regional Administrator 18 19 ៩. 202221 22 23 24 PAUL CHISTOLINI Public Buildings Services THOMAS LEWIN ESS. MICHAEL FINDLAY Rep . Christies STANFORD UNIVER NOV 995 ARTPARY LIBRARY'S 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 NB227547417 1785 v. I 1I 1T 1 INDEX 2 2 SPEAKER PAGE 3 Opening , William Diamond 3 4 Count , Barkel 3 Congressman Ted Weiss 7 5 Mrs. Jacob K. Javits 15 6 Robert Jacobs 20 7 William Toby 27 8 Harry D. Watson 29 9 Bill Tucker 31 10 Richard Serra 11 31 37 Gustave Harrow 51 12 13 Ms. S. Mendoza 56 14 Doctor Bernard Kilbourn 62 15 Annette Michaelson 66 16 Judge Carmen 70 17 Joseph Lombardi 73 18 Donald Nawi 78 19 David Novros 79 20 Leo Castelli 82 Douglas Crimp 84 21 22 George Sugarman 88 23 Mary Kilroy 91 Michael Heizer 93 24 George Segal 97 25 3 Stephen Antonakos 99 4 Gerry Rosen 101 5 Irving Sandler 106 6 Herman Philips 109 7 Philip Glass 112 8 Michael Chuisano 116 9 Edward Aames 117 10 Helina Rosenthal 122 11 Marguerite Strop 128 12 Sue Delehanty 132 13 Mrs. Robert Jacobs 136 14 Vickie O'Dougherty 139 Louise Reisman 143 15 Robert Ryman 147 16 William Reuben 148 17 Edward Leffingwell 153 18 Harold Foster 156 19 Gene Heighstein 159 20 Rosylin Cross 162 21 Julia Brown 166 22 Herbert Stupp 170 23 Thomas Lazzara 174 24 25 Lt Col Joe Feist for Colonel Griffiss 175 Claes Oldenberg & Cosje VanBruggen 179 5 Joel Kovel 187 6 Gerald Ordover 190 7 Mrs. Danheiser 196 8 Peter Hirsch 198 Charles Freeman for Joseph Monticello 201 10 Paul Goldstein for Katherin 11 Freed 204 12 Fred Hoffman for Frank Gehry 209 13 Jenny Dixon 211 14 Harriet Senie 218 15 Elyse Grinstein 222 16 Irene Kelly for Joyce Schwartz 226 17 David Rabinowitz 232 Malcolm Graff 18 233 19 Courtney Ross 238 20 Morris OrDover 243 DeeDee Halleck 244 21 Donald Thalacker 246 22 23 Barbara Jacobson 252 24 David Shapiro 254 25 Daryl Harnish 258 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 1 24 25 1 PROCEEDINGS 3 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : On the record . Please find seats if at all possible . Speakers , sit in the front row, please . All right , I would like to , if I may welcome you to the hearing on the possible relocation of the sculpture known as " Tilted Arc " which can be found in the plaza in front of this building . The administrator of the General Services Administration in Washington has requested that this hearing be held in response to numerous public expression as to the most effective us of the plaza located in front of the Jacob K. Javits Federal Building . Members of the panel joining me on this occasion are Michael Findlay , Vice - President of Christie's ; Thomas Lewin , Senior partner of Simpson , Thatcher , Bartlett ; Gerald J. Turetsky , Acting Deputy Regional Administrator of the General Services Administration ; Mr. Turetsky was GSA's Regional Administrator at the time of " Tilted Arc's " installation . We also have Paul Chistolini , Acting Assistant Regional Administrator for GSA's Public Buildings and Real Property . NATION- WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 J 1 4 2 The oral testimony over the next few days will be heard by the panel and assessed toget- 3 4 her with the letters and petitions we have received . The letters and petitions are over there . 5 I would now like at this moment to ask my executive 6 7 assistant , Joel Barkel , to give us a count of what 8 9 we have on the table . MR . BARKEN: As of this morning , March 6th ; we have 2,496 petitions . In the letter 10 11 12 13 category we have 1,139 signed letters , 152 unsigned letters for a grand total of 1,295 letters . The total amount for relocation 3,791 . Against relocation as of this morning we have 14 15 156 signatures on petition and letters , 77 signed letters , 20 unsigned letters for a total of 97 16117 letters and a grand total of 263 against reloc18 19 20 ation . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . MR . BARK : Petitions have also been circulated in this hearing and as of this date there are 3,500 against removal of the " Tilted Arc " . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . We will be 21 22 23 24 happy to receive them . Please bring them to 25 the panel . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 1 1 J 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 5 The procedure that I think we all will be interested in listening to is that the panel , which is leading here today and for the next three ( 3) days because of the tremendous interest in this subject , will prepare a report for action by the administrator of GSA in Washing2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ton . 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 201721 22 23 24 25 We expect a decision on this matter to come from Washington within 30 to 60 days . The panel is instructed not to make any aesthetic judgements as to the worth or value of " Tilted Arc " nor will it recommend that any precedent be established that would affect any other piece of art under the government's Art - in- Architecture Program. GSA is justifiably proud of its Art- inArchitecture Program , which was singled out recently by President Reagan for commendation . The Program has been responsible for commissioning many outstanding works of art that have enriched our daily lives and improved our awareness and our understanding of our life and times . The most recent projects commissioned under the Art- in-Architecture Program have entailed NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 C 2 3 6 1 Security Building now under construction . confident that our counsulations with the public 2 a high degree of public participation . 6 For 3 example , we are currently involved in choosing 4 artists for work at the Jamaica , Queens Social 5 We are 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 and community leaders will enhance the artistic statement which is ultimately produced . The United States Government paid $ 175,000 for the Richard Serra sculpture . We strongly believe that the public has a right to tell us how they feel about the way in which their government spends their money. We in government have the responsibility to provide that opportunity . The fact that we are holding this hearing is evidence of our good faith in this effort . We trust that today's proceedings will further encourage dialogue between artists and their From the overwhelming response we have received, we believe that these hearings will be 16 17 18 19 20 audience . 21 22 very meaningful and we hope that all concerned 23 24 25 will make their voices heard . Now, we have four ( 4 ) minutes for each speaker and I would like to begin if I may and I NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 16 1 7 2 think we may give him a little more time because 3 he does represent this district , Congressman 4 Ted Weiss . Please . MR. WEISS : Thank you very much, 5 6 Mr. Administrator , members of the panel . Let 7 me thank you for inviting me and for allowing 8 me to participate in these hearing this morning . 9 Let me start out by telling you that the neighborhood in which we are is not an unfamiliar one to 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2223 me . For approximately 25 years prior to being elected to Congress , this neighborhood was my professional home . I spent four ( 4 ) years just south of here as an Assistant District Attorney working in the Criminal Court Building then 15 years at City Hall as a member of the City Council and for about a decade in the 60s while these buildings were being put up , I had my office at 305 Broadway directly across from all of the pounding and riveting and construction demolition that was going on . So , that I have not only a personal familiarity with it , but a deep interest in what happens in this community and inthis 24 area . 25 I want to express my appreciation to NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/864-750 1 1 2 3 5 67 1 8 2 you and to GSA for convening this hearing and for giving us an opportunity to take a fresh look 3 4 and "Tilted Arc" and explore possible courses 5 of action for it . 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 The controversy that the placement of the sculpture has engendered warrants re -evaluation at this time . "Tilted Arc " is the result of the federal governments Art - in- Architecture Program . An outstandingly effective program conceived by President Eisenhower and implemented by President Kennedy in 1963 . It seeks to enhance the image of America through its government buildings by placing distictive works of contemporary American art in public view. By devoting to it one half ( ) of one ( 1 ) percent of the cost of construction where 16 17 18 19 20 major repairs of federal buildings , this program 21 under the General Services Administration has 22 commissioned over 200 works of public art for 23 24 25 federal facilities throughout the country . The Art- in- Architecture Program has been a major demonstration of our government's commitment to NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 C 1 9 2 the American artist and their work . 3 4 5 6 It has contributed to public awareness of the arts , has provided a steady enrichment to public places and has strengthened the fragile partnership between artists and govern7 ment . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 222323 24 25 It has brought important works of art out of the museums into urban settings and made them accessible to large numbers of Americans . As one of the most active supporters of the arts in the Congress , I have supported this program in debate and discussion on the floor of the House of Representatives and I will continue to do so regardless of what budget cuts may be threatened in the future . Whatever controversies have resulted over works with this program in the past and the present , they should not be interpreted by anyone as a signal that the program ought to be eliminated . Rather , they testify to the vitality of the program and its importance to a significant number of Americans . As might be expected from such an ambitious and far- reaching program, not every NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 2 C 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 6 7 8 3 25 1 10 2 selection of art work or location has been 3 4 5 6 fortunate as others . In 1981 a public art work commissioned by the internationally known urban sculpturer, Richard Serra , resulted in "Tilted Arc" being placed squarely in the open courtyard 7 at 26 Federal Plaza in Lower Manhattan . 8 Imagine if you will , this curved slab 9 10 of welded steel 12 feet high, 120 feet long weighing over 73 tons bisecting the street in 11 12 13 14 15 16117 front of your house and you can imagine the reaction of those who live and work in the area . Adding to the shock affect is the natual oxide coating which gives it the appearance of a rusted metal wall . Many who first viewed " Tilted Arc " regard it as an abandoned piece of construction material , a relic perhaps too large and cumbersome to move . The artist is said to have intended with this piece to " alter and dislocate the decorative function of the plaza . " 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 his concept . 25 If that was the intent , one may conclude from its harsh , disorienting affect , that the artist has eloquently succeeded in executing NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 1D 1 2 3 work within its confines? 4 But , what of those who live and The sculpture cuts a huge swath across the center of the plaza 5 dividing it in two and acting as a barrier to 6 7 8 the building's main doorways . Access to the building is awkward and confusing and the normal walking patterns of those who enter and exit the building are disrupted . " Tilted Arc " rends the serenity of the 9 10 11 plaza and obliterates its vistas and I , just to 12 make sure that my impressions were not misplaced . 13 I took another look at it as I walked in here and truly you must look at that again , if you 11 14 15 think that it fits into this location . 16 Ever since this work became visible , It has been the subject of intense controversy . 17 18 19 I do not wish to comment on its worthiness or its artistic merit . S 20 21 Undoubtedly , the very exitence of " Tilted Arc " has raised the aesthetic consciousness of everyone who has participated in discussions 22 23 about it whether pro or con , however , I believe that in the three ( 3 ) years that it has been sited 24 in Federal Plaza , the public has had sufficient time to ponder its artistic statement and contem- 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

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1 12 2 plate its aesthetic virtues . 3 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 2 2 2 21 23 24 25 The time has come to find a new location for " Tilted Arc . " Mr. Serra argues that because his work is site specific , just to move it to another location would destroy it . It has , he maintains , a proprietary claim upon the plaza just as real as that of a painting to its canvas . But , I suggest that there are other valid plains upon dzins the plaza that conflict with Mr. Serra's and that the scales tip in their favor . The community, those thousands of people who live and work in the area , have the right to reclaim this small oasis for the respite and relaxation for which it was intended . This precious , small , open space is too rare an amenity in lower Manhattan to be violated in this fashion . " Tilted Arc" was imposed upon this neighborhood without discussion , without prior consultation , without any of the customary dialogue that one expects between government and its people . The National Endowment for the Arts panel of three ( 3 ) selected the artist and a three NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22127 23 24 25 1 13 2 3 4 5 (3) person group from the General Services Administration in Washington , D.C. , approved the design . No one else . Not from the community or its representatives , not the architects , not even the 6 Regional Administrator was ever consulted . 7 These panels no matter how expert or how 8 9 10 well intentioned are not so omnipotent or infallible in their judgements that they cannot be challenged or improved upon . 11 Many of those who fear the removal of the " Tilted Arc " openly admit that the sculpture 12 13 in this plaza or placing it here was ill - conceived . 14 15 But , they say that the principle itself is what matters and they are concerned that relocating 16 17 the work itself may establish a bad precedent . Being concerned about what wrongful 18 19 things may be done in the future , is no justification for allowing a wrong to continue in the 20 present . 21 There are other principles involved and 22 23 the principles embodied in the original creation of that plaza it seems to me also ought to be 24 regarded highly . Since the " Tilted Arc " was erected , the 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 12356786 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920 212223 24 25 1 14 2 Art- in-Architecture procedures have been expanded to provide for consulation with local communities 3 4 which are to be recipients of their art . If 5 these procedures had existed when " Tilted Arc" 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 22 22 23 24 25 was under consideration , it would not be necessary for us to be here today . Mr. Serra , I do not wish to see your work destroyed . I simply would like to see it in a more felicitous location within more compatible surroundings . This is not an assault on art or on artists or indeed on this specific piece of art . It is simply an urging that it is located in the wrong place and it ought to be moved to some other place to allow the plaza to be used for what it was originally intended and to allow the work of art itself to continue to be viewed in a probably better and more felicitous light . The community deserves to have its plaza restored and its advice sought as to how the plaza might host other artistic and community endeavors . The rights of a large number of people who live and work here have been overlooked and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122232425 1 15 2 ignored . I would like to see their rights restored . And , I thank you very much for your courtesy . 3 4 (applause) MR. DIAMOND : Thank you very much , 5 6 7 Javits . 8 Congressman Ted Weiss . We now will proceed with Ms. Jacob K. Marion? MS . JAVITS : Good morning . 9 MR . DIAMOND : Good morning . 10 Both my husband and I feel very strongly about it and if the Senator 11 MS . JAVITS : Thank you for this oppor12 tunity to be heard from. 13 14 15 16 17 was not still in the hospital , believe me he would have made every effort to be heard from himself . He has written and asked me to read for him the following statement : Dear Mr. Administrator , following your kind invitation of February 25th to testify at the public hearing on March 6th on the subject of the possible relocation of 18 19 20 21 22 23 the sculpture known as the "Tilted Arc " in the plaza of the federal building named for me the following is my statement : First , let me express 24 25 my understanding of and sympathy with those judges , officials and federal employees who work in the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19202122 23 2425 1 16 2 federal building and for whom it was intended 3 4 that the Federal Plaza complex be a place of recreation and pleasure . It is , of course , a matter 5 of importance to them to be concerned with their 6 7 work environment . If this question , which is posed by the hearing could be resolved solely 8 9 10 11 on these considerations , the answer would be selfevident , but we are dealing here not with the question of decoration , but with a basic policy of our country . 12 13 As it is addressed by the Art - in- Architecture Program and by the issue of artistic integrity , the purpose of the program as I understand it 14 15 when I voted as a member of the United States 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Senate to authorize it , was essentially to express a commitment of our country to artistic expression as a vital element of our culture through the utilization of a part of the monies appropriated for public buildings for this purpose . History certainly teaches us that art to be a valid expression of our culture , requires freedom for the artist to make his statement about the life and times in which the artist lives and works . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMAPEETYORKNY10038 1111111111 1 17 2 Art , therefore , is distinguised in this way from decoration or design . It is an expression 3 4 of the deepest values of our society . 5 6 Hence , the selection process for the Serra sculpture was structured very carefully under the applicable statute as is the case with 7 the whole program. When the piece was installed 8 it was the result of a balanced judgement in which 9 10 the National Endowment of the Arts , the General 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 22 23 24 25 Services Administration and other elements of the public and federal establishment were joined in agreement . The artist made a declaration in his work, which was considered acceptable by all these elements even though some might not like it or agree with it and this some might indeed by many . Let us never forget that one of the greatest works of art mankind has ever produced , Piccaso's Guernica , is neither likeable nor pleasing , but is a denounciation of civil war . Let us never forget , too , that the enslavement of Soviet art for political purposes is condemned by us not because it may not be pretty or pleasing , but because it is false . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356 1789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1819202122 2324 25 1 18 2 3 I have thought long and hard about what ought to be done in this case . May I say 4 with all respect to those who may disagree , that 5 the trouble with removal of the Serra work quite 6 aside from whether there are any legal or contrac7 tual issues involved , which must be decided in 8 another forum, is that it runs contrary to the 9 10 very basic premise upon which the Art- in- Architecture program was designed in 1962 , and compromises 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 2222 23 24 25 the kind of integrity which makes art in our society the symbol of what freedom means in the world . It is only three ( 3 ) and a half years since this sculpture was installed and it has hardly had an opportunity to make its point . I have myself made speeches in this very plaza and it seems to me , too , to be an inhospitable place . My feeling is that much can be done to add warmth and hospitality to the plaza and it is my understanding that in this effort the artist himself would help . Insofar , as those who work in the building and our country's policy in artistic NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 I 1 19 2 3 integrity are concerned , it is this direction in which we should move rather than to perform 4 an act of removal which can only be discreditable to the United States , the future of the Art- in- 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 11113 14151 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Architecture Program, to the development of serious artists here and to the cause of freedom of expression . As Mrs. Javits will be reading my statement through whom I have learned about modern art and which she is highly authoritative over the last 35 years , I add her deep feelings that the removal of this work would result in a very serious dimunution among modern artists of interest in the Art- in- Architecture Program and a grave shock to their confidence in the attitude of our government towards the advance of culture and artistic freedom here . Jacob K. Javits . Thank you. ( applause ) Sincerely , MR. DIAMOND : Thank you, Ms. Javits , and would you please convey to the Senator on behalf of the panel our best wishes for a speedy recovery. MS . JAVITS : Thank you very much . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18192021222324 25 1 20 2 MR. DIAMOND : Mr. Jacobs? MR . JACOBS : I am supposed to identify 3 4 myself . MR . DIAMOND : Yes . Would you please 5 6 7 identify yourself if possible . MR . JACOBS : My name is Bob J. Jacobs , Robert Allen Jacobs of the Wellsworth firm of 8 9 10 architecture ; MALE VOICE : Can't hear you. MR . JACOBS : Does it come over now? 11 12 13 Okay . I belong to the firm Wellsworth firm of architects by the name of Cohn and Jacobs . We 14 got started in 1943 and ; 1940 and we ; 151 16 17 18 MALE VOICE : ( Interposing ) We can't hear . FEMALE VOICE : The mike is not on . MR . JACOBS : The mike is not on . MR . DIAMOND : I think the mike is on . MR . JACOBS : Louder? Can you hear me? MR . DIAMOND : Yeah , you are not near 19 I think we need to ; go on . 20 21 22 23 24 lean down 25 enough to the microphone . MR . JACOBS : Can you hear me? MR . DIAMOND : Yes , that is better . Just to the microphone . I am sorry . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19202122 23 24 23 11 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 MR. JACOBS : operation and I am deaf as a doornail , I am I have just had a throat 80 years old , so I will do the best I can . ( laughter ) ( applause ) MR. JACOBS : I am so glad to see Mrs. Javits . We were both on the same battlefield . Do you remember , Marion ? When we were both retained by New York Telephone . I was retained to design that building at 1095 Avenue of the Americas and in getting artwork , Jack Collins of New York Telephone retained Mrs. Javits as an art consultant . We had many meetings . We disagreed, but she certainly is an authority on art and I bow to whatever; I don't bow to 16117 18 19 it , but I listen carefully to what she says . We had a very good time together doing this job . Now, I have a speech that I am going 20 to read . Instead of calling this thing the 21 22 23 24 25 "Tilted Arc " it should be called the Jilted Arc . And, I suppose it all depends on which way the wind blows on how you are going to vote . I approach from the south and there is a northwest wind and it was a blessing , period . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 21 SBEEKMANEYBEET2410034

1 22 2 3 ( laughter) MR . JACOBS : My wife thought I should give some creditials and mention some of the 4 5 three ( 3) buildings . 6 things we designed . I am only going to take The Municipal Asphalt Plant , which The Landmarks Commission made a 7 8 landmark a few years ago . I think it was because 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they couldn't tear it down . ( laughter ) MR . JACOBS : I also designed the terminal for American Airlines . I have been very sympathetic with trying to bring art and architecture together and if you know that building there is a stained glass mural 330 feet long and 23 feet high . There is a piece of painting on your building on the north side of the ground floor of the court house by Sy Fogel . It's a mosaic mural . And , it is a marvelous tradition that GSA is carrying on started by FDR in the Federal Art Project during the Depression and I commend them for what they are doing . Not for this thing and for God's sake let's not call this a piece of sculpture . Let's start right off by calling it a wall . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 23 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ( applause) MR . JACOBS : In Mr. Tretsky's office I pointed to three ( 3 ) buildings that I designed , which you can see from his office . One Penn Plaza , One Astor Plaza and the Headquarters for New York Telephone on 42nd Street and Avenue of the Americas . So much for the creditials . We were one of three ( 3 ) firms put together as an architectural joint venture neck and come up ; I never forget that saying 11 12 and usually joint ventures are a pain in the 13 14 15 that the defintion of a horse is a camel designed by committee , but we did take three ( 3 ) people , one ( 1 ) from each firm and made a design group of it and we went through literally hundreds of scheme before we arrived at this one . 16 17 18 19 20 Pore and Higgins and Higgins and we created 2112 The other firms were Alfred , East and 22 a board of design consisting of men from each office . I represented my firm. The scheme is announced after the 23 24 results of many , many studies . It basic design 25 concept was to enlarge Foley Square with a western NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20212223 24 25 1 24 2 backdrop of the large federal office building on the so called Little Jewelbox to the court 3 4 house standing in front of it with the length 5 6 of the main building . We thus provided a large plaza and 7 put this court house on stilts so the plaza could flow through it . It was an uninterrupted 8 9 10 space and my God , in New York City do we need plazas? 11 12 13 Now, Ada Louise Huxtable and Paul Goldberg are the great critics , want us to bring every building down to the building line to give integrity to the streets . That is just so much hooey . What we need; that hate Sixth Avenue , I love it because you have all these plazas where people can sit in the daytime 14 15 16 17 18 so this 19 came about it was 1961 by Jim Feldman he was 20 eat their lunches and bask in the sun , 21 head of this planning committee . You exchange space in the building . Gave people more space for plazas to admit sunlight down to the street and what we did here was to enlarge Foley Square by about 25 percent by opening this whole thing 22 23 24 25 up . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 25 2 We thus provided a large plaza , handsomely 3 landscaped with an attrative fountain all of which 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 provided a fine pedestrian amenity where in pleasant whether the plaza was a resting place to eat lunch or bask in the sun. We also retained the firm of Clark and Rampole , Warner , one of the most distinguished site engineers and landscape architects in the country and the design in the pavement was Mike's design and this whole thing is fractured by this wall . I mean you can't get the feeling of this plaza design because it was all part of the whole scheme . Now, the iron fence and as I said I can't get myself to say sculpture , presently occupying the plaza , splits it in half and might be called three ( 3 ) dimensional graffiti . It spoils completely the sense of openness so much desired in this city . The crazy wall cuts right through the pavement of design , right through the pavement design and spoils it two- dimensionally as well as three ( 3 ) the original concept by the architect 21 22 23 24 25 is fractured . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 26 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 statue of Marcus Aurelius . It was indeed very wrong not to have consulted us , who would have turned down the installation of this wall . I wonder what Michelangelo would have said if he heard this " thing " called scuplture had been placed in his plaza on a Capitaline Hill in Rome in place of the Roman I don't think he 9 10 would have found it an addition . 11 Why not remove it to a field or in 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 the country or still better into the deep woods where it is less likely to be seen and will be covered by leaves . Gertrude Stein said something like a wall is a wall is a wall . Let's call this thing a wall , not a sculpture , and remove it from the very handsome open plaza with this backdrop of the federal building acting as a fine , open addition to Foley Square Park . To close , Robert Frost once said 21 22 something there is that doesn't love a wall and he asked why walls have to be built at all . 23 24 He didn't like walls even functional ones , so in 25 this spirit let's remove the non- functional wall NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 27 and enjoy our bright , open, sunny plaza . 2 There is one thing I would like to 3 add and if you could get a hold of Len Hunter who awarded us the job . He was the chief archi- 5 6 7 tect in 1958 for GSA and it would be ; his opinion would be a very valuable one I think . MR. DIAMOND : 8 Thank you. Thank you 9 10 very much, Mr. Jacobs . ( applause ) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920 20 21 222 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : William Toby . MR . TOBY : Good morning . Members of the panel . My name is William Toby , I am the Region Administrator of the Department of Health and Human Services , Health Care Finance Administration . I have over site responsibility for the Medicare and Medicaid Programs . I have a budget of 15 billion dollars I am responsible for . I am also responsible for 172 people who work in this building , at 26 Federal Plaza . I am very pleased to appear before this public hearing to provide my opinion on how to better utilize the plaza on the ; side of the federal building , which now houses a rusted metal wall , which passes under the sobriquet of a scuplture NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 28 2 called " Tilted Arc . " Let me emphasize that at the outset 3 4 I am a vigorous supporter of the arts . Sculpture in particular . 5 I especially support the use of the lobby in the federal building to exhibit art . 6 7 It's a source of joy , gratification to me . I am here today to express my oppos- 8 9 ition to the present location of the barrier 10 that passes for art and to recommend its relocation 11 to a better site . A metal salvage yard . 1211113 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 There are four ( 4 ) specific reasons why I recommend its relocation . Number one , it destroys the previously open plaza by obstructing free passage across the plaza and blocking an open view of the fountain . Number two , it constitutes a scar on the plaza and creates a Number three , it's a target e fortress like affect . for graffiti . Number four , it is too large for its present sight and it violates the very spirit and concept of a plaza . 21 22 During my 17 years of employment in 23 this building nothing has offended me and my 24 25 staff more than the erection of this huge , rusted metal barrier . It has been a source of continued NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 29 2 3 complaint by my staff who are affronted by its appearance on the plaza whenever they have to look at it . 4 I venture to say that those who support 5 it do not work at 26 Federal Plaza . They don't 6 7 8 have to look at it and they don't have to negotiate around it to walk across the plaza . 9 So , I urge all of you to haste its 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 demise or its reduction to the scrap iron from which it seems to have been born . ( applause ) Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Toby . We now have Mr. Harry Watson . MR . WATSON : Gentlemen , my name is Harry Delaney Watson . I work for the Bureau of Investigations the State of New York as a supervisor . 18 I have lived in this area for the last 20 years 19 and work in the area . Every time I pass this 20 21 so called sculpture I just can't believe it . Unbelievable . If you want to talk about sculpture you have in the City Hall Park three ( 3 ) classic 22 23 24 25 Greeley of the examples of it . Namely , Benjamin Franklin , Horace New York Tribune and Nathan Hale , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 202122 23 2425 1 30 2 who gave up his life in the Revolution . And , if 3 he saw this " Tilted Arc" he would say what did 4 I give my life up for , if this is what they descend 5 6 7 8 9 to in these days . As I said when I pass it I can't believe it . The General Services Administration or whoever approved this , this goes beyond the realm of stupidity . This goes into even worse than insan10 ity . 11 12 13 I think an insane person would say how crazy can you be to pay $ 175,000 for that rusted metal wall . You would have to be insane . More 14 than insane . 15 I believe that it was a complete 16 waste of money . I think the only solution to 17 the whole thing is to take it down and sell it 18 to a scrap metal farm for maybe $ 50 . 19 20 I can't see where anybody would approve such a piece of nonsence or garbage in this day 21 and age and I hope that this can be resolved and 22 23 24 25 that it be taken down . I also voice an opinion and all of those in favor of it you can bring up buses , take them over to Belleview Hospital and sign them into a NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964.7580 12 1111111111 ! 2 1 31 2 mental ward . That is where they belong . Thank you, gentlemen . (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Watson . 3 4 5 6 Bill Tucker . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR . TUCKER : I am an attorney with the Environmental Protection Agency , Office of Regional Counsel and I am speaking on behalf of employees of the Environmental Protection Agency who have signed a petition to urge the removal of the sculpture . I should add that I also have a background as an artist and art teacher and I hold a doctorate in art education from Columbia University . I object to the scuplture not on aesthetic grounds , but on the grounds that the present installation of the work violates the public polies of the Art - in-Architecture Program . I would like to lay out some of the legal issues if I can . I should emphasize that my opposition to the present installation of the sculpture should in no way be construed as an attack on the Art - inArchitecture Program or those who administer it . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 111122222ין 1 32 2 The program's goals of aesthetic enhance3 ment of the public spaces , support for the work 4 of living American artists and preservation of 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 the national cultural heritage are laudable and imminently deserving of the support of government workers and the public generally . As an artist by avocation myself I would be dismayed if my opposition to this installation were perceived as an attempt to weaken the program. Indeed , the very controversy surrounding the placement of the Serra sculpture is ample proof of the importance of public art to those whose daily environment is affected thereby and should serve only to encourage the judicious , conscientious and vigorous pursuit of the program's goals in the future , however , it is the failure of the installation of the scuplture to achieve those goals , which has generated the present controversy . The public policy of the Art- in- Architecture 22 Program is stated in a GSA order dated December 23 1st , 1978. That document states that " as a matter 24 25 of public policy the US General Services Administration , the federal government recognizes its NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 33 2 3 4 5 6 I 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 responsibility to improve the quality of life through the commissioning of works of art for federal facilities . " A GSA Art- in-Architecture Program circular further elaborates this policy stating that such works of art " are intended to be an integral part of the total architectural design and enhance the building's environment for the occupants and the general public . " The installation of the Serra sculpture at 26 Federal Plaza unfortunately does none of these things . It does not enhance the building's environment or improve the quality of life . Since in its present location it physically impedes the movement of the public and government workers who must pass through the plaza daily and discourages and prohibits the use of the plaza for assembly or recreation purposes such as performances or concerts . Ironically, it also renders inpracticable the use of the plaza for outdoor art exhibitions formerly held there on a regular basis . It does not function as an integral NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 1212/964-7589 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 34 2 part of the building's architectural design. 3 since it utterly destroys the plaza as an archi4 5 tectual entity . For example , it blocks the view of 6 Foley Square from the east entrance of the build7 8 9 ing and a good portion of the plaza itself . A view which affords one of the few open panoramas in the densely developed and congested lower 12 13 14 15 10 11 Manhattan environment . It appears to be no accident that this scuplture functions in such an intrusive and confrontational way . The New York Times art critic , Grace Gluck , quoted Mr. Serra , Times August 7th , 1981 16 as stating that the work " alters and dislocates 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 the decorative function of the plaza and actively brings people into a scupltural context . " To the extent that Mr. Serra may wish to claim any artist's moral right in the continued placement of this scuplture at 26 Federal Plaza , it should be kept in mind that the work's installation was undertaken by the artist with 24 25 full awareness as indicated by the above statement , that the work would alter and dislocate the funcNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5BEEKMANSTREETSUITE311·NEWYORKNY10038 2 3 5 6 7 8 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1816119 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 35 building's environment should have been abundantly clear to the artist . tion decorative or otherwise of the plaza . That 2 3 4 this was in controvention with the policy of the Art-in-Architecture Program to enhance the 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12135 14 15 16 17 In addition , I would argue for relocation as a conservation measure . In its present location " Tilted Arc" has been a constant target of vandalism and despite periodic cleaning its patina is currently disfigured by graffiti . Removal to a more congenial environment would minimize the risk of such disfacement of the work in the future and enable the government to better fulfill it public function as conservator of the work . The sculpture should , of course , be re-installed in a suitable location . One which would not physically modify or alter the work or otherwise discredit the artist's reputation . Hopefully such relocation could be 18 19 20 21 achieved with the artist's approval and assistance . 22 23 However, I do not believe that Mr. Serra may 24 validly claim a moral right in unreasonably 25 withholding his assent to re- installation of NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 2 3 5 6 7 8 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 201721 1422 23 24 25 1 36 2 this work in such a suitable location . Nor , may he claim a contractual right to permanent 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2001000 21 22 23 24 25 installation at 26 Federal Plaza since it is my understanding that the original contract for sale of the work provides that as United States ' property is may be conveyed to the Smithsonian for exhibition and " permanent safe keeping . " New York Times February 3rd , 1984 . I would add that New York's Artist Authorship Rights Law applies only to works publically displayed in New York State . Thus removal of this work to the Smithsonian as contractually provided for , would not offend that law. In addition , since only public display is prohibited by that law , I would suggest that should Mr. Serra refuse to consent to suitable relocation of this work, it might simply be placed in storage , therefore , in order that the Art- in-Architecture Program's goals may be re-affirmed and public support for the program strengthened , I and those employees with the US Environmental Protection Agency who have signed the attached petition , urge the GSA remove " Tilted Arc " from 26 Federal Plaza to a NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 12356786 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 23 24 25 37 1 2 more suitable location at the earliest possible ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Tucker . 3 date . Thank you. 4 5 Thank you. 6 Mr. Richard Serra . 7 8 9 10 MR . SERRA: My name is Richard Serra and I am an American sculptor , I am an American artist also . I am going to open my talk by giving some background information about what I do , why I do it , how I build my sculpture , what site- specific sculpture means and why site - specificity and permanence are inseparable . 11 12 13 14 15 16 don't make works that can be relocated or 17 I don't make portable objects . I 18 19 20 2 223 21 23 24 25 site adjusted . I make works that deal with environmental components of given places . Scale , size , location of my site - specific works are determined by the topography of the site , whether it be urban , landscape or an architectural enclosure . My works become part and are built into the structure of the site and often restructure both conceptually and perceptually, the organization of the site . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1312 14 15 16 17 18 198020 21 22 23 24 2 25 1 38 2 My sculptures are not objects meant 3 for the viewer to stop , look and stare at . The historical concept of placing sculpture on a 4 5 pedestal was to establish a separation between 6 the sculpture and the viewer. I am interested 7 in a behavioral space in which the viewer interacts 8 with the sculpture in its context . 9 The sculpture and its context . When 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I started working on the project for Federal Plaza I made extensive studies of it . The plaza was essentially used only as place of transit through which people pass from street to building , therefore , " Tilted Arc " was built for the people who walk and cross the plaza , for the moving observer . "Tilted Arc " was constructed so as to engage the public in a dialogue that would enhance both perceptually and conceptually , its relation to the entire plaza . The sculpture involves the viewer rationally and emotionally . A multitude of readings is possible . My hope is that the viewer can learn something about sculptural orientation to space and place . The work , through its location , height , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1235789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19202122 23 24 25 1 39 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 length , horizontality and lean , grounds one into the physical condition of the place . The viewer becomes aware of himself and of his environment ; movement , through the plaza . As he moves the sculpture changes . Contraction and expansion of the sculpture result from the viewer's movement . Step by step the perception not only of the sculpture but of the entire environment changes . The space can be experienced as compressed , foreshortened or extended . 12 Two ( 2 ) discreet sculptural volumes , 13 concave and convex , are opened to the walking 14 15 viewer . As you cross the plaza on the concave side , the sweep of the arc creates an amphitheatre16 like condition . 17 18 19 202221 22 23242 25 This newly created concave volume has a silent amplitude which magnifies your awareness of yourself and the sculptural field of the space . The concavity of the topological curve allows one to understand the sweep of the entire plaza, however, upon walking around the convexity at the ends , the curve appears to be infinite . Understanding the simple distinction between a plane leaning towards you that is curved NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 2356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2223 2425 1 40 2 and concave , and a plane that is leaning away from you that is curved and convex , is crucial . 3 4 This establishes new meanings among things . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Space becomes a sum of successive perceptions of the place . The viewer becomes the subject . One's identity as a person is closely connected with the experience of space and place . When a known space changes through the inclusion of a sight- specific sculpture , one is called upon to relate to the space differently . This is a condition that can only be engendered by sculpture and nothing else . This experience of space may startle some people . In order to achieve this effect , it was necessary to sink and tie the arc into the concrete and steel structure in the plaza . I had to build it into the plaza . I built " Tilted Arc" for the Federal 18 19 20 Plaza not only because permanency is intrinsic 21 22 23 24 25 to my site - specific work, but because I was asked by the GSA to build a permanent work . In response to the GSA's request to build a permanent sculpture , I studied the Federal Plaza carefully and note that half of the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/084.7600 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 171888 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 25e 1 41 2 plaza was given to a non-working fountain and 3 it was my concern not to interfere with this space 4 and the paths that lead to , from and around the 5 6 fountain . I also ensured that the remaining half of the space was left open for social 7 8 functions of any kind . It is bogus and false 9 10 11 12 13 to say that the social function of the plaza is destroyed , and it is false to say that as Mr. Diamond has said, that it is impossible for the public and federal community to use the plaza . 14 Also , the experience of art itself is 15 a social function . 16 17 It is curious to me that people who are concerned with function , can't even put water in their fountain . ( applause ) Some people are concerned with the 18 19 20 sculpture blocking entrances to the Jacob K. 21 22 Trade . Javits Building and the US Court of International Months were spent building full scale 23 mock ups on the plaza . Finally , I laid the curve 24 out with paint and chalk and observed people walking in and out of the buildings . It was 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311. NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 2356786 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 192021222324 25 1 42 2 clear to me that the placement did not interfere 3 with the access to the main entrances and exits 4 5 6 of either building . I went through a two ( 2 ) and a half year process of preparing my proposal . I was 7 told that I had to pass a review board in 8 New York and a jury in Washington , D.C. I said , 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 223 22 24 25 look , what if this project doesn't get on? What assurances do I have that I will pass the final jury? Donald Thalacker , the Director of the Art - in-Architecture Program, said to me, Richard , don't worry about that . You get one chance in your lifetime to build one permanent work for one federal building . There is one permanent Oldenburg , one permanent Segal , one permanent Stella , one permanent Calder , and this is your one opportunity to build a permanent work for a federal site in America . I said , okay . ( laughter) I didn't make a dime on this project . The inducement was permanency . The GSA policy was, and still is , to build permanent works by nationally recognized artists for federal sites . That was their promise to me and their pledge and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSUITE211NEWYORKNY10028 235786 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920212223 24 25 43 1 2 that pledge has been made to upward of 250 artists 3 in the United States . The inducements offered by the governm1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ent and my reliance upon them. When the government invited me to propose a sculpture for the plaza it sought and asked for a site - specific sculpture . As this phrase implies , a site - specific sculpture is one which is conceived and created in relation to the particular conditions of a specific site and only to those conditions . To remove " Tilted Arc " , therefore , is to destroy it . The final decision to install " Tilted Arc " was based upon GSA's full knowledge of the sculpture , and the commitments to install it permanently . It was agreed , through explicit commitments , that the work would not be removed or dismantled . The contract . These commitments were made specifically in reference to Article 6 in the contract , the sole provision which can be construed as relating to the issue of ownership Article 6. This provides that all designs , 22 23 24 25 sketches , models and the works , shall be the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356786 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920 2122 23 24 25 1 44 2 property of the United States , and that all 3 such items may be conveyed to the National Coll4 ection of Fine Arts- Smithsonian Institution 5 6 7 8 9 for exhibiting purposes and permanent safekeeping . I explicitedly discussed Article 6 with the director of the program and with the project officer for my sculpture . I asked , what does the language mean? They said in times of 10 11 disaster they want the authority to move their bronze and marble statue to the basement of the 127 Smithsonian . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I said what about " Tilted Arc ? " They said it doesn't apply . Nevertheless , the Times recently reported that offers have been received by the GSA to relocate " Tilted Arc , " including one from Storm King . While these offers are clearly responsive to Mr. Diamond's initiatives , they incredibly proceeded without my knowledge . These actions were taken in violation of the terms of my contract . The effort to relocate the work in Storm King has resulted in a letter from the director saying he would not accept it without my consent . The program and the process . It has SPENATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 1 9 10 11 12 3313 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 3022 23 24 7 8 5 6 3 2 25 1 45 2 also been suggested that the public did not choose 3 to install the work in the first place . In 4 fact , the choice of the artist , approval of 5 6 7 the sculpture , and the decision to install it permanently in the plaza , was made by a public entity , the GSA. Its determination proceeded on the 8 9 basis of national standards , carefully form10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 222 23 24 25 ulated procedures and a jury system to ensure the impartiality and the selection of art of lasting value . The selection of this sculpture was , therefore , was made by , and on behalf of , the public . The question the , is whether a public decision can be reversed by this hearing after the fact . This is quite a different question than whether local communities should have input into the process prior to the selection and installation . The process . A summary of the selection process which lead to the installation of the " Tilted Arc" is necessary for a clear understanding of the issue . At the request of the GSA, NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 2356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1819202122 23 24 25 1 46 2 the National Endowment for the Arts designated a panel of experts to nominate artists . After 3 4 a thorough screening of nominees , the General 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Services , GSA director invited me to submit a proposal . I was assured that the considerations of my proposal would involve objective , nonreversible procedures and agreed to participate in the process . My site- specific proposal for a 12 13 14 15 permanent sculpture was accepted after a jury evaluation in Washington . The art officer of the New York Agency participated in Washington in the process . The program. My understanding was that I was involved in a national program. One that was designed to express and represent the 16 17 18 19 extent of our national cultural achievement . 20 The idea , I thought , was to invite 21 artists to create art worthy of being permanently 22 23 installed at federal sites . I thought the idea was to strive for excellence . I understood this 24 25 to mean that the program would not be subject to political currents , prejudices , ephemoral tastes NATION- WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 47 2 or bureaucratic pressures . What this hearing signifies . In 1981 3 4 5 the GSA permanently installed the sculpture . The officially stated purpose of this hearing is 6 7 8 9 10 to further assess location reactions to the sculpture and particularly its effects on the plaza , however , this hearing generates an issue of fundamental importance to me , which cannot be resolved by this ad hoc procedure . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920 20 21 22 23 24 25 This is an issue of whether a national decision , a national decision , formulated through procedures designed to ensure impartiality and excellence , can be reversed after the fact in order to rescind the government's commitments and contracts . The agency gave its commitments and signed a contract . If a reversal should result in response to subsequent pressures from specific outside sources , it would fundamentally undermine confidence in the program. An objective , binding process will have been substituted by a public hearing , convened by a local administrator , to reverse the outcome . From the perspective of the administrators in the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSUUTENEWYORKNY10014 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920212322232425 48 1 2 for their involvement , time , effort and creativity 3 Art-in-Architecture Program, this would mean the commitments could not be made in good faith . From the perspective of participating 4 artists , it would mean that commitments exchanged 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could not be relied upon . From the public's perspective , officials yielding to such pressures will be perceived as an assault on artistic expression at a time when it ought to be protected and have a priority which is second to none . If this can be done , integrity in governmental programs related to the arts will be compromised , and artists of integrity will not participate . If government can destroy works of art when confronted with restrictive pressures then its capacity to foster artistic diversity , and its power to safeguard freedom of creative expression will be in jeopardy . The presidential citation . One additional point must be made . "Tilted Arc" was selected and installed as part of the GSA's Artin-Architecture Program . This year , on January 30th , 1985 , this program was one of the few NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 49 In presenting the award , President Raegan observed , the federal government is a nation's single largest builder , printer and 2 selected to receive one of the first presidential awards for design excellence . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 user of design services . What we build , print or cause to be manufactured for federal use directly affects every citizen . We must ensure that these investments are cost - effective , well planned and reflect the standards of excellence which we all expect from our government . At a time when cost - effective consciousness , it would cost the government $ 50,000 to destroy my work . Most significantly , in describing the Art- in- Architecture Program , the award in part stated , artists have been given aesthetic freedom and support even when their works have controversial . Installations that may be judged by the press , critics and others to be difficult to comprehend , or less than completely successful , are to be expected in such a courageous program and should be interpreted as an index. NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 5C This is a courageous program which has supported many stimulating and often controversial works of art in federal facilities across 1 2 of its continuing vitality . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 the nation . To achieve this level of independence in artistic judgement , rigorous procedural mechanisms were devised to ensure an invulnerable process for selecting artists of achievement and art of enduring qualities . 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The objectives were specifically to institute safeguards against the insistence of transitory fads , or the personal predilecitions of politicians , or the changing administrations and governmental administrators . What this hearing signifies . The program would have no meaning unless it effectuated as well as signified and symbolized freedom of creative expression . This implies that once the artist is selected through objective procedures , the artists ' must be uncensored , respected and tolerated ; although deemed abhorent , or perceived challenging or experienced as threatening . To realize this then , when art is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 1 2 funded or governmentally supported, it is essen3 4 tial to institute guarantees which ensure the independence of any panel or jury which selects works 5 of art . 6 7 This implies the competence and impartiality of a jury or panel . These are the basic elements of due pro- 8 9 10 cess , particularly needed where government affects areas of free expression . To enable the arts or artists to func- 11 tion and work freely , and to avoid governmental 12 13 or institutional or donor- sponsored dictates , 14 15 16 17 18 191 20 21 2 23 the art , artist ought to first be selected objectively , impartially and then their artistic expression ought to be insulated from censorship , suppression and destruction . ( applause ) MR . SERRA : I would like to thank literally the thousands of people across this country who have come to my support . (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Serra . 24 Gustave Harrow. 25 MR . HARROW: I speak as counsel to NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 52 2 Richard Serra and I didn't know he would be 3 such a hard act to follow. He did a pretty 4 good job of representing himself, but I have 5 6 7 8 a serious question to raise as to the legitimacy of the convening of this panel . The Art - in- Architecture Program of the United States Government , which implemented 9 the installation of " Tilted Arc " has articulated 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 2 20 21 carefully considered policies and guidelines to realize the objective of inducing our nationally prominent artists to create art of enduring quality for a permenant installation in public places . These guidelines and procedures contain no provision which authorizes or anticipates this hearing and it did not when the process was implemented and the choices were made and the installation was effected . This hearing is purely ad hoc , afterthe- fact device , never contemplated by the parties involved in selecting and contracting for "Tilted Arc" and its installation . As a result , I raise the following questions and make the following observations : The act of convening this meeting was unauthor23 24 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 53 2 3 4 5 ized if not illegal . It violated the due process in the administration of the program. It was convened quite obviously to reach a foregone conclusion not an informed one . And , 6 the manner in which it has been constituted 7 is an effort to mask its illegitimacy . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 202221 22 23 24 25 As to legality . The convening of this hearing may be illegal because it was called by an official to consider breaching a binding contract between the government and an individual . And , as an Assistant Attorney General for this state for many years I know you cannot convene a meeting to consider a violation of a contract or the violation of a law . That constitutes a violation of public trust . And , ironically , the impotence for this hearing has come from those charged with administering justice in government . As to the due process . Convening this hearing violates the meaning and spirit of due process since it entails an effort to change the rules after the game has been played . As to the prejudging of the issue . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 .1 12 13 14 15 16 17 118 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 54 2 That this hearing was convened in order to 3 4 reach a result that has already been made and concluded is clear . It's clear because the 5 Regional Director , Mr. Diamond , who is responsible 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 for convening it , had already prejudged the issue publically and in the press urging that the sculpture be removed . It is equally clear that if this hearing could appropriately be called , this official should have disqualified himself from participation in every respect . If it were to be cleansed of its impairment of due process . Instead , he is here . He is presiding and he will evaluate the hearing . 16 The hearing was improperly constituted . 17 18 The reasons it is improperly constituted involve the entire panel presiding at this hearing . Since 19 the officials who should have himself chosen , 20 21 22 23 24 25 designated the panel and did so , should have been disqualified and his choice of the panel , therefore , rendered it disqualified . These facts in my opinion disregard the ordinary responsibilities of public office and the terms of its trust . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 192021222324 25 1 55 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 I have just one concluding statement to make and it reaches a level I think of importance that goes beyond the issues with us today . I believe we can judge ourselves , our society by the sense of justice government fosters by its adherence to procedural due process in the execution of its laws and by the way and the extent to which the standards and spirit of due process characterize the administration of government . We could also , I believe , judge and measure ourselves and our society by how it To creative persons and artists . This , I think , reflects the way 12 13 14 relates to creativity . 15 16 17 18 19 20 we relate to ourselves . To our creative urges and need to find expression after an internal struggle , not in response to the imposition of external pressures and forces . If this matter and this proceeding illustrate and signify the extent to which 21 22 the meaning of due process is integrated into 23 the administration of governmental policy , 24 and the manner in which we relate to artistic 25 creativity , then I feel we must judge ourselves NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 123456789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920212223 2425 1 56 2 poorly in terms of the fundamental need for justice 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 and the liberating power of creativity . In conclusion , I urge this panel to recommend that it should not have been convened and that in the future this kind of ac hoc , afterthe-fact failure of due process be precluded from governmental administration and most particularly as it relates to creativity and the arts . ( applause) MR. DIAMOND : Thank you . Thank you , Mr. Harrow . And , we will now hear from Ms. Mendoza . MS . MENDOZA : I am Serita Mendoza and I have been asked by Mr. Franklin Feldman , who is out of town , to read a letter that he had written to Mr. William Diamond . Can you hear me? VOICES : Yes . MS . MENDOZA: Okay . Dear Mr. Diamond , 19 20 I am submitting to you herewith my views with respect to the scheduled public hearing relating 21 22 23 24 25 to the utilization of the Federal Plaza including the potential relocation of the large metal sculpture known as the " Tilted Arc . " As a matter of background for a subNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETCLITE.. 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122232425 1 57 2 3 stantial period of time I have been involved in various aspects of the Visual Arts as a lawyer 4 and as a bit more than an artist ; I have served 5 as chairman of the Art Committee of the Association 6 7 of the Bar of the City of New York , have been president of the International Foundation for 8 9 10 Art Research a non-profit organization , have taught a seminar at Columbia Law School in law and the visual arts and have co- authored a 11 book on art law. 12 13 In addition , from a different profile I have worked as a print maker for many years , 14 15 have had prints exhibited at a number of New York gallaries , have sold printed to American and 16 17 18 19 20 European collectors and in 1983 was one of the artists in residence at Yago , ( phonetic ) the artists colony in Saratoga Springs . If anything, I have a strong bias in favor of the working artist . A number of years ago as a lawyer I was asked to represent George Sugarman the sculptor who has received a GSA award with respect to a public sculpture to be 21 22 23 24 25 erected adjacent to the Federal Court House in Baltimore , Maryland . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7580. 1235789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19202122 13 23 2425 1 Presumably on the grounds constituted a threat to their 2 3 As you are probably aware , a number of the federal judges had objected to the work after 4 its installation . 5 that the work 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 safety and that of others working in the court house in that the work could have been used as a protective device for muggers and other undesirable individuals . Our view was that this objection had no basis in law or in fact . Did not represent the view of the public who were to enjoy the work and represented an unreasonable attempt to censor a unique work of art . Our principle efforts were aimed to persuading the administrator of the General Services Administration that he should remain firm and should not be persuaded to a handful of individuals regardless of their rank or position . As you know, this was the final result and the sculpture has remained in Balti21 22 23 more to the continuing pleasure of the persons 24 who frequent and visit the premises . I believe that you have an entirely 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 58 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 6 10 11 111 59 1 2 different situation here . It is my understanding 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 that in view of the public's enjoyment and utilization of the plaza , the GSA has now determined that it may have made a mistake in their selection of the site for the work and is considering removing it . Not destroying it . To another suitable location . In my judgement there is nothing wrong or improper for you to so move this sculpture . Indeed , it is my understanding that it is the public itself who has traditionally enjoyed the space which now clambers for its removal . As a matter of law there is nothing 12 13 14 15 16 17 to prevent you from removing the sculpture . You have full title to the works and arguments about moral rights and the recently enacted New York statute in my view miss the point . 18 19 20 21 22 23 much more concerned if GSA should retreat 24 25 from its position that it believes correct . This There is no common or moral right which would prevent you from removing the work to another suitable location and the New York statute does not change that result . As a matter of public policy , I am NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 192021 22232425 1 60 2 was intended to be public and the public view 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 point not that of the artist alone , should have a say in whether that art so detracts from the public space that it has impaired considerably the use and enjoyment of that space . The artist is entitled to a voice , but not a veto in that decision . The broadest question is the one that interests me most . If an aggressive artist can notwithstanding the public viewpoint be prepared to dictate the location of his work. it seems to me that the whole General Services Public Arts Program is in jeapardy . The problem was not designed principally to benefit artists , although , that may be a side result . The objective was to enrich the environment and to bring significant 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ment and wishes of its benefactors it seems to 22 me that future awards and the benefits to 23 other artists as well as the public could be in ·24 serious jeopardy . 25 If the artist were held to have an art to public places . If one artist can so threaten a judge粤NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 14415 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 221233 24 25 1 61 2 3 enforceable claim there is no document which you could write which would assure that you would have 4 any control over future locations of work which 5 6 you have commissioned , paid for and to which you acquire full title . 7 That must be disconcerting to anyone 8 who administered this type of program as well 9 as to those legislators who appropriate the funds therefor . 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 If the public's desire is clear , and if a suitable location can be found , which I assume to be the case , I believe it will be a serious error of judgement to conclude that the artist's wishes are decisive . It is quite disturbing to see one artist in his effort to mandate a decision that is legally questionable and not necessarily in the public interest , jeopardize a superior program , which has brought high art and rich enjoyment to so 2221 many . 22 23 24 25 2 335 I strongly urge that you reflect on what it the most appropriate use of that space and be guided accordingly . Feldman . Signed , Franklin NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 62 2 ( applause) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 MS . MENDOZA: Thank you. MR. DIAMOND : Doctor Bernard Kilbourn . MR . KILBOURN : Thank you , Ms. Mendoza . Thank you . I am Doctor Kilbourn, the Regional Director of the Department of Health and Human Services and responsible for the activities of the entire department and Region 2 . I appreciate the opportunity to be here to share with you the thoughts of HSS Region 2 people regarding the location of " Tilted Arc . " My comments will not be on the artistic merits of the piece , but rather directed toward the impact of the sculpture has had on our staff and those whom we serve , the public . The Department of Health and Human Services is the largest tenant agency in the 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Jacob K. Javits Federal Building , with more than 22 1,200 employees . Our agency's mandate requires 23 24 25 that we serve the most vulnerable members of our society , the elderly , the disabled , the poor and the young. NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 63 2 3 In carrying out our mission , we routinely hold major events for the public . A sign4 ificant number of these events have been in the 5 past held at the Federal Building , are now 6 being held at the Federal Building . Examples 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of some programs include such things as health fairs , consumer fairs , art exhibits , volunteer davs , special ethnic programs and events for the disabled . The very presence of " Tilted Arc " precludes our even considering the plaza as a suitable place to hold such events . The sculpture bisects the plaza , making it impossible for my agency to hold major events in the outdoor area of the plaza , therefore , it is necessary to scale down programs so they can be accommodated in the lobby of the building . Because of the limited space and volume of traffic , the lobby is not a very viable location for many of our programs . There are very few open, public places that afford the benefits that this plaza provides . It's an excellent space that is basically being underutilized because of the location of the arc . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 12356789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18192021222324 25 1 64 Prior to the erection of " Tilted Arc " 2 3 4 my agency used the plaza for several large gathering , the most recent being a swearing in 5 which was held in June of 1980. More than 1,500 6 7 people attended the ceremony . It was a festive event which was open to all employees of the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 Department in government as well as the public . A number of federal , state and local elected officials attended as did the press . Unfortunately , we can no longer hold these public type events because of the free flow of space is now segmented . An attempt was made by my department to utilize the plaza in the spring of 1982 for a community health fair . The only way we were able to set up the health care booths , because of the arc , was to divide the fair into two ( 2 ) segments . The feedback received at the event was that many of the participants did not realize that there were additional screenings on the other side of the arc . It was difficult for staff to maintain coordination and control the fair because of the arc . Since that time , we have only conNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 65 2 ducted health fairs in the lobby or in conference 3 rooms where we have been forced to reduce the 4 size of the fair and public participation . Many times the lobby location is not 5 6 within the direct flow of traffic , thereby 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 202221 2222 23 24 25 limiting the number of people attracted to the fair. equally . Our mission is to serve all the public "Tilted Arc" unfortunately has been a magnet for ethnic graffiti . Racial and religious epitaphs abound on it . Whenever such graffiti appears on the arc my office is swamped ; with telephone calls from irate employees demanding that the slurs be removed . It is interesting to note that the federal building itself is graffiti free . After the graffiti has been removed , if one walks close enough to the sculpture the impressions made by the spray can paint still appear through the coverup . Again , I am not commenting on the artistic qualities of the work. I am trying to balance the right of the public to have easy access to public space against the right NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 123456789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920172122232425 1 66 2 of the art to remain in its present location . 3 In line with our mission to serve 4 the general public , we are often called upon 5 6 to serve as the arbitrator between special interests and the general welfare . 7 8 9 10 11 In this particular case the right of the art is of special interest and the uses of the space is for the general public . We strongly support your accepting our position that the use of the plaza for the general public outweighs the special interest in this particular case . Thank you. 12 13 14 15 Kilbourn . 16 17 ( applause) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Doctor 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 I believe , Annette Michaelson , please . MS . MICHAELSON : My name is Annette Michaelson and I have been in a position to follow the entire projectory ( phonetic ) of Serra's work for my own work as a critic of the arts goes back some 25 years . It includes some five ( 5 ) years as the editor , the art editor of the European edition of the New York Herald Tribune , 10 years as associate editor of Art Forum NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 67 2 an internationally distributed magazine and the last eight ( 8 ) years as the co-founding editor 3 4 of October . A journal dedicated to the theory 5 and criticism of the arts . Social context . 6 7 8 9 10 11127 13 14 15 I am also a professor of the School of the Arts at New York University . As I say I have followed the entire projectory of Serra's work from his initial exhibitions in this city in the late 60s and I shall not address the question of their aesthetic particularities , nor shall I address the niceties involved in the violation of a contractual situation . I wish to address in a way which 16 perhaps has been somewhat neglected . The notion 17 of public interest as it relates to the problem 18 at hand and I wish to do so by calling atten19 20 2122 22 23 24 works . 25 tion to the fact that Serra's work has always been public . That he is a premier representative , perhaps the most distinguished representative of his generation a generation which turned in the 1960s to the production of large scale publically oriented and public challenging NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 1 1 1 68 2 But , he is singular in that genera3 tion in that in his background as we all know , 4 most artists in our society are recruited from 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 the middle class and the list of artists I sited just a few moments ago as represented in this federal program, confirms that knowledge . Serra is exceptional in that he is a product of the working class and I would want to present as more than interesting , really significant background evidence a statement published or a segment of a statement published in number 10 issue of October , fall of '79 14 15 by Serra . It is part of a long interview. As a kid I worked steel mills . I worked when 16 I was 17 , 18 , 19 , and 24 , 25 and my work could 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have something to do on the personal level with the fact that my father was a factory worker all his life , so I began to think about his relation to his work in order to understand what that had meant , to understand what a working man's life is about . If you ask me why I decided at one point in my life to investigate the facts that people , working people's efforts were going into building my work, well , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1235789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920212223 24 25 1 69 2 when you go to a steel supplier in America 3 you don't trace the product back to its 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 22 23 24 25 origins to where that steel was poured , you simply accept the fact that labor has afforded you a product that you as a sculptor can then re-manipulate and offer to another class for another kind of consumption . And , I had an interest in following the product from its inception through the making , pouring and forming of the material , steel , and in observing the workers relation to all of those facts . The source of the need is very hard to define . I didn't think of making a political point of it . It just seemed to me that all the luxuries of commodities that we have are produced by working men . What I wish to point out in the very brief time allotted to me is that ; is the conjunction in Serra of a real concern for the notion of his work as related to that of working men in this country as emoting from it and his concern also that people working and living in sight of their work be confronted with an art which challenges that , which does NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14155 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 3 2 25 1 70 2 3 not necessarily confirm their beliefs or impose second class or third rate qualities on them, 4 but that the working man and the office worker 5 be presented with that same kind of challenge 6 7 that the middle class and upper class art patrons have found so interesting . I, therefore , want to suggest that 8 were this particular work to be relocated and 9 10 to relocate it is as we know for a site- specific 11 work to destroy it , if indeed if it were then 12 to be destroyed , there would be more than a 13 kind of drastic irony involved . There would 14 15 be the feeling by the artistic community certainly but by more than the artistic community 16 17 that a blow had been struck at the attempt to conjoin in a single work a concern with the nature 18 19 20៩៩ 21 22 23 24 25 of labor , of process , of materials , of a publically oriented work with a more abstract and legal conception of the public interest . MR. DIAMOND : Thank you . (applause ) Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Judge Carmen . JUDGE CARMEN : Mr. Diamond , members of the panel , I want to thank you for giving NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMAN STREET 123456789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1718 1920212223 2425 1 71 10 11 12135 2 3 me this opportunity to speak for before you. The proposals for the " Tilted Arc " a 120 foot 4 long and 12 foot high curved leaning rusting 5 6 wall bisecting the plaza at Lafayette Street adjacent to the federal building in Manhattan , 7 was studied by certain high governmental officials 8 as I understand it . The art was ultimately commissioned and installed on behalf of the United States of America at great government expense demonstrating the appreciation of the high governmental officials who approved of this kind of 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 2 2 24 25 art . Although I served as a member of the arts caucus while in Congress , I do not possess the same kind of a lend that induced the high governmental officials who authorized the "Tilted Arc . " On the other hand , I wonder at the analogy that can be drawn between the unusual circumstances surrounding the " Tilted Arc " and the acquisition of the new clothes acquired upon the advice of high governmental officials purchased by the Emperor in the child's fairyNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 72 2 tale . 3 4 5 6 7 8 You recall that although the so called tailors charged the emperor an inordinate sum, and played upon his vanity when weaving his new clothes , it took the innocence of a child's question to discern the truth that the emperor was wearing no clothes at all . 9 A suspect there are some innocents 10 who would question whether or not the " Tilted 11 Arc " was an art object at all . In any event , 12 13 14 15 the location of the arc is certainly not fortuitous . It discourages the use of the plaza because the arc is depressing and overbearing . It blocks the view of the fountain and it invites vandals to place graffit upon it . Others avoid the plaza since the arc 16 17 18 19 20 looks like part of a subway construction site . Transients have actually been seen urinating upon it and in short the plaza has become a place to avoid indeed an embarrassment . 21 22 It has been suggested here this morning 23 that the holding of this hearing somehow violates 24 25 2335 the concept of fairness and due process . I would like to suggest that that proposition is mere NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 11 18 15 21 21 212253 2: 24 25 1 73 2 poppycock . 3 4 5 6 7 ation . 8 In order for public arts programs to have public support , there will continue to have public input . I respectfully request that the " Tiled Arc " be removed to a different locThank you . ( applause ) 9 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Judge Carmen . 10 Joseph Lombardi . MR . LOMBARDI : My name is Joseph Lom11 12 13 14 15 16 bardi , I am Clerk of the Dourt of this United States International Trade , Mr. Diamond . I must ask before I begin why the fountain does not function . Have you ever thought if the fountain was functioning the " Tilted Arc " might never have been built . Thank you for providing this opportunity . My comments will be brief and they will focus 1717 18 19 20 on the decision- making process that was involved 21 in placing the sculpture in 1981 and in its poss22 23 24 25 ible future relocation . What do we know for sure? We know that the decision to place the sculpture achieved its intended purpose . The decision makers according NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311. NEW YORK NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 74 dislocate the function of the plaza , to redefine and challenge the space and to change the viewers 2 to newspaper articles intended to alter and 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 experience of it . We also know that the decision to change and dislocate the plaza was made without any public participation and you know the decision was made without consulting the architects who originally designed the plaza . The architects told you that had they been asked they would have unanimously opposed and strenuously objected to the sculpture . Finally , we know who made that decision . It appears from what we hear today that two ( 2 ) or three ( 3 ) government employees in Washington made the decision . The fact that their decision was reached 16 17 18 19 20 makes it no less an autogratic decision . with the concurrence of three ( 3 ) art experts What we do not know is why the decision 21 22 was made to change the plaza . What was wrong 23 with it the way it was? 24 25 As a columnist in the New York Times asked , why despoil the spacious plaza with the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 219/BRADRAA 123456789 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19202122 232425 1 75 wall , which bisects it like the business end 2 3 of a giant cleaver . The question you now must answer is 4 5 why you should permit the barrier to remain 6 7 may or may not be discussing 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 22 23 24 25 as a source of annoyance to so many people . We a work of art . Art , of course , is in the eye of the beholder , however , without question the " Tilted Arc " is a steel wall , 120 feet long and 12 feet high , 1,440 square feet of rusty steel , disfigured and blemished with graffiti and the evidence of your continual , never- ending efforts to remove the graffiti . It is an arrogant and domineering wall that according to the architects intrudes itself and completely spoils their original design . If you have concern for the sculptor's right to freedom of expression , should you not also be sensitive to the artistic expression of the original architects who designed the plaza ? They did not want another artist to change and alter their creation . As they advised you , they consider the NATION- WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 1 2 wall to be " an unsightly piece of work . " They 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are asking you to remove " this piece of unnecessary imbelishment from our previously simple and artistic forecourt . " Therefore , to the extent that artistic sensibilities and artistic expression are relevant to your decision , should you not apply the maximum equity which teaches that between equal equities the first in order of time shall prevail? The issue before you , I suggest is not between those who believe the wall is art and the beknighted Philistines who are unable to appreciate artistic expression . Nor , does it present an issue of government censorship of art . The issue you will make involves an issue larger than the retention or removal of the steel wall . The larger issue is how should the government decision maker reach a decision involving the expenditure of public funds for a local public purpose . The issue before you concerns public , not private property , public , not private funds , public , not private works of art . The steel wall was bought and paid NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMAN STREET RUUTR 1235S 10 1:11: 1. 111112 1 77 2 3 4 for with public funds for a public purpose and the massiveness of the 78 tons of rusty steel has a most serious impact on the public's right 5 6 and ability to use a public place . In short , we are discussing the public's 7 business . No government functionary in Washing8 ton should be allowed to arrogate the power 9 to decide unilaterally what will best serve 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 22 23 24 25 the local community interest . If you refuse to remove this massive incroachment on a public place , you will deny the only remedy available to rectify a wrong against the public . Your refusal to remove the wall would in effect ratify and condone an act of autocratic and overreaching bureaucratic authority that should not be tolerated in our system of government . Permit me to remind you , that our government and its program including Art - in-Architecture are premised on the consent of the governed . I suggest your positive response to the public will help not hinder your program. I believe that a decision to remove the wall will enhance , not impair public conNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10038 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 78 2 fidence in Art- in- Architecture . More importantly , the removal of the 3 4 5 wall will demonstrate to the public that its government will respond to petitions for redress 6 of public grievance . And , removal of the wall 7 would be consistent with the political philosophy 8 that decision making power should be returned 9 to the state and the local communities . 10 I conclude by suggesting that for 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so long as that wall remains it stands as symbol to the public that its agents , government employees even though acting with the well intent and sense of artistic noblesse oblige unilaterally can impose their opinions on the public and worse , the symbol demonstrates the the public is powerless to re - assert its rights . Thank you. ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you very much . Mr. Donald Nawi , next , please . MR. NAWI : Mr. Diamond , gentlemen , I am Donald Nawi . I am an attorney , although , I live in New Rochelle , I spend a good deal of my professional life in the United States Court NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 2 3 5 6 7 9 10 : 11 12 13 14 15 161 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 79 2 House and this area that surrounds it and , in fact , Foley Square is my second home . 3 I also wrote something about the 4 5 "Tilted Arc " and its impact and I would like to read that to you. You might call it a poem, 6 in fact , I don't know what else you would call 7 it . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 191 20 21 22 23 24 25 There was a plaza once , now there is a steel wall . was ? There was light , there air once , now there is a steel wall . There were people once , mingling , looking , talking , sitting , now there is a steel wall . There was an architect's dream once , a conception realized , a view from the building , a view of the building , now there is a steel wall . There was something once , now there is nothing . But , you say there is sculpture . There is art . Like a moustache it will grow on you . A steel wall in the middle of a plaza is a steel wall in the middle of a plaza . Thank you. (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Nawi . David Novros . MR . NOVROS : My name is David Novros and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET.SUITE311.NEWVARYNV 10030 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1920 20 21 12 22 23 24 25 1 80 2 I am the painter . Can you hear me now? MR . DIAMOND : Just bend a little more 3 toward the mike . 4 MR . NOVROS : Now can you hear me ? 5 MR . DIAMOND : Yeah . 6 MR . NOVROS : Yeah? Can I be heard? 7 MR . DIAMOND : Just speak into the 8 mike and they will hear . MR . NOVROS : I am speaking into the 9 10 mike . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : That's it . You have it . MR . NOVRSO : My name is David Novros . And , I'm a painter , and I left my studio this morning around the corner to come here to tell you that after 20 years of trying to paint on walls in public places and on ceilings in public places the latest of which was one for the GSA in Miami , I would never accept another job if I thought I was going to have to be subject to this kind of interrogation and have to defend my work. All that we get from the jobs is the opportunity to attempt to make something in a permanent space . If this can't be guaranteed , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 81 2 there is no point . I wouldn't do it anymore 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 if I thought it would be torn off the wall or painted over or in the case of Richard's where; dismantled , ie . , destroyed . statement . Now, I would like to read a short The means of integrating paintings and sculpture into the community are inefficient at best and generally insensitive to those prerequisites that have historically determined "the success or failure " of any art made for a specific place , people or event . 12 13 The exitence of art in a community 14 15 16 ought not to be determined after the function and appearance of the site had been fixed . A painter of scupltor ought not 17 to be trapped into the situation of having 18 19 20 21 to fit his philosophy into the expectations of others . He should rather be a full partner contributing his skills and imagination from the outset . That brings us to Richard . He has obviously complied with every obligation under 22 23 24 his contract . 25 He has produced what was expected of him and now if this were to be removed , it NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 82 2 would be a case of art vigilanteism . 3 4 5 6 7 8 Somehow the process by which public art gets made and has to ensure that when the work is done there won't be a renunciation on the part of the selection agency . Until the agency's procedures are changed , an artist must know that his work is sufficiently valued by 9 its commissioners to allow time rather than 10 11 12 13 14 15 current opinions to determine its value for the timeless public . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Mr. Leo Castelli . MR . CASTELLI : I am Leo Castelli . Richard Serra has been associated with my gallery 16 17 for over 15 years . It has been for me a wonder18 19 ful experience . From modest beginnings he has acquired immense stature as an artist . His 20 work can be found everywhere in the world . 21 In the United States and in Europe . Actually 22 23 24 25 he became known in Europe before he did in the United States and until quite recently there was an immense piece of his in ; Paris in connection with a show that he had at the Vavoor Museum NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSUITESULL.NEWYORKNY10038

1 83 2 and although the public was a little bit puzzled 3 by the sculpture in the beginning , it then had 4 an immense success and it was in time accepted 5 6 7 8 9 even by the public that was just passing by there casually . A piece of his in Amsterdam in other cities in Holland , well as I said in France and well all of the world and , of course , quite a few in the United States . 10 I had so much faith in Serra that I 11 had an enormous piece , an enormous piece that 12 still exists . It's at the issue of the Holland 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Tunnel . It is still there and I think it's a very beutiful piece and it is as site - specific as this piece here on the Federal Plaza . It has been often thought it would move it to some other place and then it was decided that it was impossible because just constructed for the place as this piece here is constructed for the plaza . 21 The plaza , well , let me say quite 22 frankly is a very boring kind of architectural 23 space . And , I think that Serra's piece has put 24 25 some life into it . Now, I do understand that some people may have objections against it , but I do NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

84 1 2 imagine that little by little people will get 3 used to it and appreciate it for the immense 4 5 6 MR . DIAMOND : vigor that was put into a dead space . This is all I really have to say really . Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Castelli . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Mr. Douglas Crimp . MR . CRIMP : Yes , my name is Douglas Crimp . I would like to read a statement . At the end of this statement I will , in fact , refer to " Tilted Arc " as a wall . I am someone who has followed sufficiently the development of contemporary sculpture to know that a wall indeed can be a work of sculpture . I am a critic and editor of the cultural journal , October. But , I want to speak here not as a professional , but simply as a member of the public . And , specifically as a member of the community who live and work in the vicinity of "Tilted Arc . " When I look out of the window of my apartment I am confronted by the Federal Office NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10030

1 85 2 Building , which looms over the mostly victorian 3 4 5 rooftops of the buildings nearer to me . The stark ugliness of the Federal Building is underscored by its juxtaposition 6 7 in my view; with the beutiful cupola of the Munciple Building . Built at a time when 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 government's commissioned great architecture instead of bleakly functional and cheap buildings . But , confronted with the Federal Building I am somewhat consoled by the fact that one half of one ( 1 ) percent of the price of its ugliness paid for what I experienced ? as the most interesting and beutiful public sculpture in my neighborhood . But , my experience evidently differs from that of many people who live and work in the area of " Tilted Arc " and I cannot easily dismiss this difference of opinion . Nor , can I easily change this difference of opinion . What I can do is say how I think this 22 23 24 difference of opinion is being used . For I believe that this hearing is a calculated 25 manipulation of the public of " Tilted Arc " in NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

86 1 which we are asked to line up as enemies . On 2 3 4 the one side , those who love it and on the other side those who hate it and wish to destroy it . 5 This hearing does not attempt to 6 7 8 build a commonality of interest in art in the public realm . Although " Tilted Arc" was commissioned by a program devoted to placing art in 9 public spaces , that program seems now utterly 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 uninterested in building a public understanding of the art it has commissioned . This is not a hearing about the social function that art might play in our lives . Rather , it is a hearing convened by a government administrator who seems to believe that art and social function are antithetical . social function . That art has no What makes me feel manipulated is that I am forced to argue for art as against some other social function . I am asked to line up on the side of sculpture against say those who are on the side of concerts or maybe picnic tables . But , of course , all of these things have social functions . And , one could name many more . It is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 87 2 a measure of a meager nature of our public 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 social life that the public is asked to fight it out in a travesty of democratic procedure over the crumbs of social experience . I believe that we have been polarized here in order that we not notice the real issue . The fact that our social experience 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 is deliberately and drastically limited by our public officials . The view of us , the public , that is really held by those who have convened this hearing can be discerned from a passage in a letter from Chief Judge Edward Ray who has been leading the fight to remove " Tilted Arc " since the day it was erected . After a long list of complaints against " Tilted Arc " Judge Ray writes ; sorry, I must say this list includes the absolutely surreal claim that " Tilted Arc " causes rat problems . ( laughter) 21 MR . CRIMP : Judge Ray writes and I 22 23 quote , " Finally , but by no means of minor importance is the loss of efficient security surveillance . 24 The placement of this wall across the plaza 25 obscures the view of security personnel who have NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5BEEKMANSTREET,SUITE311•NEWYORKNY10038

88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 no way of knowing what is taking place on the other side of the wall . " Well , I would submit that it is we the public who are on the other side of this wall and it is we who Judge Ray so fears and despises that he wants that wall torn down in order that we may be properly subjected to surveillance . 10 11 ( laughter) MR . CRIMP : It is no small measure of the success of " Tilted Arc" that it has elicited this repugnant view of the public and brought it into the public realm . 12 13 14 15 16 17 to it . That is , out of the sights ofthose who I urge that we keep this wall in place and that we construct our social lives in relation 18 would conceive of social life as something to 19 be feared, despised and surveyed . Thank you. 20 20 21 22 ( applause ) MR. DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Crimp . We will now hear from Mr. George Sugarman . 23 MR . SUGARMAN : My name is George Sugar24 man . Do you hear me? MR . DIAMOND : Yes . 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964.7588.

1 89 2 MR . SUGARMAN : 3 FEMALE VOICE : 4 MR . SUGARMAN : MR . DIAMOND : 5 6 7 8 through this before . 9 10 11 MR . SUGARMAN : My name is George Sugarman . Which one do I; (Interposing ) This one . Okay . My name is George Sugarman . I am an artist and I have been Those of you who listened to Ms. Mendoza's letter from Franklin Feldman know I had a smaller , but similar experience in Baltimore , which went on for over a year. 12 I am going to talk as an artist . 13 Other people who know more about the law 14 15 and about the moral aspects of it , can do much better than me in that aspect . 16 And , I'm here for a simple reason . 17 Those of you who know my art know that it is 18 19 20 21 22 23 almost aesthetically speaking almost diametrically opposed to Richard's and I think that is the importance and I think that is why I immediately said I am going to talk on behalf of Richard . One of the most important aspects of American art is its diversity , its pluralism and 24 25 the fact that it is able to encompass all kinds of aesthetics and it is one of the important NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 2 3 4 5 6 parts of this program, that it is sympathetic to all kinds of aesthetics . As artists , as someone who is as different as Richard in a sense what this program is doing is laying out to the public 7 all kinds of artistic statements and saying let's 8 see what is going to survive artistically , let's 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 find out what this country wants and needs as artistic statements to express our national vitality and , of course , our national pluralism and diverisity . American art is still the most vital art in the whole world and one of the reasons that has helped it stay that way is this program. 90 16 I could talk for a long time about 17 it , but time is short . I just want to ; I think 18 I should say one thing . 19 2020 2122 There is an old saying that art is long and life is short or something , but in this case I would say art is long and public's taste is short . There is a whole history throughout the 22 23 history of art of public tastes gradually , grad24 25 ually changing , gradually understanding . And , as different as Serra's work is from mine , I NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311. NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 91 2 think it applies to all art . We have to wait , 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 we have to live with art to understand it . We are not appealling to a TV taste . We are not appealling to what ; shall I say McDonald's hamburger , you know, quick taste . We have to live with art to understand it and it is for that reason that I am for the maintenance and the retention of Serra's sculpture in the public plaza . Thank you . (applause) 12 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you very much , Mr. 13 Sugarman . 14 We now have Marry Kilroy I believe . MS . KILROY : I am Mary Kilroy and for the past 15 years I have administered the Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority's public 15 16 17 18 art program. 19 20 21 22 22 23 242525 Founded in 1958 and the largest , over 500 works of art. I have personally been involved in some 200 public works of being placed in various projects throughout our city . As of today , not one single art work under our program has been removed nor relocated , however, this positive climate could very drastically be altered if Richard Serra's NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/BRA.7800

1 92 2 "Tilted Arc" is removed by the General Services 3 4 Administration . This case is the bell weather in the night for the future of public art in this country . 5 6 If " Tilted Arc" a site- specific work , is forcibly removed by GSA or relocated to another site , 7 8 the integrity of any and all works of public 9 art heretofore will be compromised . 10 Not only on the federal level , but on 11 state and local levels as well . If this situation 12 13 is permitted to occur then a fatal precedent will have been established and all hell will 14 15 break loose . The Philistines are in the wings sharpening their long knives . Don't let them draw blood . Let us speak frankly . Today a very 16 17 18 vital principle is at stake . An artist's work is 19 about to be violated . Ideally , the work of art should be the 20 21 focal point of the public environment , accessible 22 23 24 25 to all , where the general public , not just the informed art public , can experience it , accept it , love it , hate it . Apathy has always been an enemy of art , especially public art . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 2 3 4 Hopefully , this entire controversy may have a positive resolution and a salutary affect if it raises the public's perceptions 5 6 of what public art is really all about , however , this will only happen if the GSA stands fast 7 and firm on the integrity of this work of 8 9 art , which they commissioned by Richard Serra . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Ms. Kilroy . ( applause ) 10 11 MR . DIAMOND : I believe we have 12 Michael Heizer next . MR . HEIZER : My name is Michael Heizer . 13 14 I am a sculptor ; VOICES : 15 ( Interposing ) Can't hear. 16 17 MR . HEIZER : I am a sculptor and a contemporary and a friend of Richard Serra's 18 for 10 , 15 , 20 years . I am not sure . Fifteen 19 ( 15) years . VOICES : Can't hear you. Talk into 20 21 the mike . 22 23 24 25 MR. HEIZER : Which one? At any rate , our business as sculptors is to practice the utilization of about the oldest form of expression and you could say that NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 93 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 94 2 you could equate it quite ; MALE VOICE : 3 ( Interposing ) Can't 4 you get the microphone turned up so that we 5 can hear it? 6 MR . DIAMOND : Just speak into ; speak 7 right into the ; MR . HEIZER : 8 ( Interposing ) At any rate , 9 10 the sculpture for a quick ; is the equivalent of a communications device like this camera 11 and the recording devices being used in this 112 13 building , it's an ancient practice . Serra excells in the business because 14 the purpose of sculpture is to create something 15 16 17 that is strong and powerful . It's a mute , inert object and it's not easy to put life , to put force or existence into an aesthetic object . This scuplture in front of this 18 19 building is obviously a very successful work 20 because it's creating a response and a very 21 strong response . And , it seems to me premature 22 know that you have realized that , to even consider 23 24 any further the removal of the work. I think that now that the reaction has begun , it should 25 be observed now consciously and by everybody NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 95 2 3 at least a moratorium period . After these discussions you will find that this sculpture 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11127 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 is now also famous and you are going to have a hard time moving it . For that reason alone . (applause ) MR . HEIZER : At any rate , I saw it again this morning when I walked in and I think it's extremely modern . I don't think it blocks anything . I don't think that it impairs the view. I think those are false issues . I have encountered those many times myself , many times I am accused of removing a piece of lawn in Michigan in the middle of a state complex when the entire state of Michigan is nothing but lawns and forests . ( laughter) MR . HEIZER : And , it was a relief to be away from that . I would also further remark today that this building is not a very 2020 21 good looking building . That's true . It's 22 23 not a very good looking building . I am surprised that Richard never mentions anything 2 2433 about that himself because I don't think that 25 the building is very complimentary to the work . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 96 2 ( laughter) ( applause) 3 MR . HEIZER : At any rate , aesthetics 4 is the business of artists and I almost feel 5 that you are all naive and have come here to 6 7 learn aesthetics from us , the artists and from Richard in particular over this incident . 8 I think you are learning something here forcibly . It seems almost dream like that 9 10 you would be wanting to be educated in some way 11 about aesthetics . We are experts in it . We spend our whole lives living that and it's ; it is a higher 12 13 14 form of thought. 15 16 17 18 19 20 Aesthetics are one of the advantages of being alive , is to be able to attempt to approach things like that . You may go the museum once or twice in your life . Obviously none of you are probably deeply engaged with looking at or living with art . At any rate , I think that the tables 21 are turned and I think they have been turned on you and I think that whoever started this , this 22 22 23 energy against this sculpture and against this 24 25 artist has simply enforced the artist and has already failed whether or not the work ever moves NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 97 2 and I think that the lesson alone is sufficient in that light . 3 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you, Mr. Heizer . 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 335 24 25 (applause ) MR. DIAMOND : Mr. George Segal . MR . SEGAL : Can you hear me? MR.DIAMOND : Yes . I think so .

MR . SEGAL : I am George Segal . I am an environmental figure sculpture . I came to talk for Mr. Serra , obviously . I have been listening to some of the outraged criticism of the sculpture and it strikes me that people in the room seem not to remember the origin for the attitude of this arrogant , convinced , private artist . I think it goes back to Michelangelo arguing with Pope Julius and we have to remember who Pope Julius was . Not only was he the Pope , the head of the church . He was the commander in chief of the army and he was head of the government and Michelangelo had the terrible nerve to say Julius leave me alone on the scaffold and I am going to do what I want and Julius smiled and understanding that Michelangelo had enormous NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-78110

1 98 2 amount of talent , but also Julius understood 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 that Michelangelo was on his side . They were both involved in that time with educating an almost illiterate public on the story of Jesus Christ . The glue that kept that country together . I think we are in a modern democracy not quite the same as Renaissance Rome and I think that something happened that started with Michelangelo and educated people that said that 11 12 13 if you leave free thinking artists alone and you set up a system of selecting the best of that group of artists , you are going to have the 14 15 best civilization and culture that you can get . Our museums and public libraries are testament to that fact . I think we are forgett- 16 17 ing that simple , elemental basis that art has 18 this value of trapping or encapsulating the 19 best thinking of a generation . Translated to our times the GSA as 20 21 22 23 24 an extention of Pope Julius , decided to ; (laughter) MR . SEGAL : Decided to collect the best art of our times . I think as simple as that . It took a lot of nerve to do that and 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET SUITE 211 NEW YORK ~K 1444.

1 99 2 3 4 I don't think that the artists are against society . Mr. Crimp , I think made the essential ,, The fulfillment of the artists 5 6 critical point that letting artists freely express themselves is a broad measure of our 7 civilization . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 has something to do with the fulfillment of democracy . If we start backing down on objections in on public objections we are endanger of establishing the same standards for outdoor public sculpture that we have for television and we would be in a terrible state if our public sculpture proposals and sculpturists were on the same level as a TV sitcom program. There is that danger of the domino theory . I think that we can't afford to drop our standards and I think we should give every consideration to keeping Mr. Serra's sculpture in place . Thank you. (applause ) 23 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Segal . 24 We now have Stephen Antonakos . 25 MR . ANTONAKOS : My name is Stephen NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 100 2 Antonakos . 3 I am a sculptor and I have done quite a few public works around the country 4 and one of the works is in Dayton , Ohio for 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 19 20 21 a federal building . The Serra " Tilted Arc " is a sitespecific work and is essential here to understand that this means it is part of the site and the site is part of it. To remove it from the site would be to destroy its integrity as a work of art . It would not be the " Tilted Arc" if it were put anywhere else . The protection from removal and destruction is covered in a contract between the government and the artist . It is further elaborated by the New York Arts and Cultural Affairs Law, which prohibits the : displaying of an artist's work in an altered or modified form without his consent . The idea of a new use of the plaza 22 for other purposes seems like a cover-up for 23 the real intention . That is , for the removal 24 of the sculpture . 25 This plaza's use was carefully conNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

101 1 2 3 sidered and is being used by a major sculpture . Art is also a social function . The "Tilted Arc" should remain where course not . Today it is an important symbol 5 it is . Should the Eiffel Tower have been taken 6 down because some people didn't like it , of 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 of Paris itself . All such examples are property chosen and contracted public art as the " Tilted Arc " should enjoy the confidence of our own and future generations of citizens and visitors . Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , sir . 14 15 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : 16 Jenny Holzer . (No Response ) 17 MR . DIAMOND : 18 Gerry Rosen , next . Thank 19 you . 20 MR . ROSEN : My name is Gerry Rosen and 2122 22 23 24 25 I'm a member of the New York and California Bar . I specialized in art law for 20 years . My observation this morning is that there is a dichotomy in the presentation here from the people , the occupants of the buildNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 102 2 ing verses the public . 3 4 5 6 7 The occupants are the servants of the public and would deprive the public of access and the resource of this art . I would like to site Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes ' writing in 1903 in regard to 8 9 the aesthetic judgement in a legal context . He said in this case , it would be dangerous 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 it would be a dangerous undertaking for persons trained only in the law to constitute themselves judges of the worth of pictorial illustrations outside of the narrowest , most obvious limits . At one extreme some works of genius would be sure to miss appreciation . Their very novelty would make them repulsive until the 17 public had learned the new language in which the 18 19 author spoke . It maybe more than doubted, for instance , whether the etchings of Goya or the paintings of Manet would have been sure of pro- 20 21 tection when seen for the first time . That is 22 22 Holmes speaking in 1903 . 23 Now, you have put a great deal of 24 25 on here , petitions and letters . emphasis on a kind of a polling that has gone Your petition NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 103 2 I think has been circulated in the building 3 4 area here primarily , so I believe it represents the voices of the occupants of the building . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 on art . If you are going to have a poll , how are you going to determine the constituency? How are you going to get a representative selection of the will of the public who have the right to the continued or the decision? So , possibly one of the reasons for going with the initial GSA procedure , which you are now impeaching . You are impeaching , attempting to impeach your own procedure , was to because of the impossibility of having a popularity poll 16 17 Now, as far as the graffiti goes , the New York Police when they caught a graffiti artist , beat him to death . You have police 18 19 2020 all around here . You have very stringent federal laws that would ; I am sure that the deface21 ment of any United States property is a felony 222 23 and if you were to ; if your guards here were 24 25 to diligently carry out their duties in protecting government property , the graffiti would disappear , furthermore , the graffiti is a pimple on NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 [ 104 1 2 3 5 a knat's eyebrow. In the long run because the piece , the steel is designed to oxidize and to reach an arrested state of relative permanence . Now, the whole thing about rust shows a kind of a prejudice against the oxidation of steel . 6 7 8 9 10 11 acceptable . In the Bronze Age green is considered Now, we are in the Iron ; we are post-Bronze Age in our culture ; ( laughter) MR . ROSEN : (Interposing ) So , this 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 2 2 2 work is a ; in a way if you want to look at it symbolically it's as strong if not stronger as a symbol than the eagle that is our national symbol , so it really; it dresses up , it says something about the spirit and strength of our country . We should look at it in a positive way and I think that the people that have come here and have made very gross statements about the junk and based on ; I hate to say this , but all right; ( laughter) MR . ROSEN : (Interposing ) Ignorance 24 ought to adopt an attitude . 25 There is an attitude NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

105 1 that makes art available to the layperson and 2 3 4 5 6 that attitude is some kind of suspension of disbelief and acceptance and if you accept it , if you have an open mind towards it then you can profit immeasurably by then being able to 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 partake of its ; of it as a resource . Now, I know my time is up , but I do want to say that I was asked by Tom Doyle , a sculptor who has a work up at the Federal Building in Fairbanks , Alaska , and he feels his piece is now in jeopardy if this piece goes down in New York his piece will go down in Fairbanks and that is a general fear of sculptors that I have talked to . I also make this address in behalf of the Civil Rights Committee of the New York County Lawyer's Association , which has enacted a resolution characterizing this proceeding as censorship and a kind of second- guessing of 2221 the original determination of the GSA. Thank you 22 very much . 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Irving Sandler . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 115 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 106 2 3 MR . SANDLER : My name is Irving Sandler . I have been an art critic , art historial for some three ( 3 ) decades . Part of that time has been as an art critic , five ( 5 ) years of it with the New York Post . I am a professor of 5 6 7 art history at State University of New York at Purchase and I live in this area . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 In 1972 I was commissioned by the National Endowment For the Arts to formulate a position paper on works of art in public places . Subsequently , this paper was accepted as NEA policy . After establishing the desirability of a public art on the grounds that the humanity of a great democracy requires it , I asked how can a democratic society cheat a valid public art? And , my answer not by governmental dictation to artists as has been the practice of totalitarian regimes , but by making it possible for a variety of artists and American artists distinguished by its pluralism, each according to his or her individual vision to create for public places in the conviction that together their works will embody the highest aspirations NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 107 2 of American society . I also expressed the hope that this 3 process would lead to a great tradition in 4 public art much like that which exists in 5 studio art . That chain of styles which stretches 6 from Manet and Rodan on and incidentally , the 7 8 kind of tradition that existed in other periods in the past , the Gothic Era , the Renaissance Era 9 10 and so forth . A tradition of public art could not 11 12 13 exist in 1972 and then in the following dozen years has not had the time to evolve . It can 14 only develop through an ad hoc process . There 15 are some safeguards to be sure . We can try 16 to choose the best of our artists for public 17 18 selection that work . 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 commissions and we have devised methods of Methods based on large part on a consensus of artists , museum directors and curators , art editors and critics , art historians and art educators and other art professionals and we have selected the best . Serra is a case in point . And , having selected our best artists , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 108 2 we must allow the process of achieving a public 3 art worthy of our great nation to work itself out . 4 5 It 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Destroying any existing work aborts the process and is bad public policy . undermines the confidence of artists and encourages bureaucratic interference . Thus , the fate of Serra's " Tilted Arc " places in jeopardy the future of public art and the potential enrichment of the lives of countless Americans . I do not believe this future should be determined by the relatively small number of people who happen to work in this federal building . There has not been sufficient time for final judgements to be made , particularly for work that challenges our conventional artistic expectations and we know from experience that public attitudes change as they did in Grand Rapids with regard to Colder's sculpture or in Baltimore with regard to George Sugarman's . I do believe that greater effort should be made in the future in informing the public about works of art in public places and their NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

109 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 intentions and involving the community to a greater extent in the selection process prior to selection as was the case in Charleston , West Virginia and the process itself may need reviewing , but it is morally and legally wrong to destroy a permanent site- specific work of art and I strongly urge against such an act . Thank you very much. ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Mr. Herman Philips . MR . PHILIPS : My name is Herman Philips 13 14 and I am making a statement as an employee 15 at 26 Federal Plaza for the past 13 years , as a neighborhood resident a few blocks away for 16 17 18 12 years and as a representative of the Regional Office of the US Environmental Protection Agency . 5019 20 21 22 23 24 25 We applaud GSA's concern for the plaza area and we would welcome its return as a space available for government sponsored public events , which are a recurring function of our agency, is the case with other federal agencies . The plaza is an ideal site for out - ofdoor events , but " Tilted Arc " precludes its use . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 We have used other off- site , outdoor locations over the years , however , logistics have proven quite difficult . There appears to be a debate about the artistic merit of " Tilted Arc " but there should be little argument that it is in the wrong place . You've heard it before and you will hear it 9 10 over and over again during this hearing I am sure that it disrupts the foot traffic across the 11 12 13 14 plaza and because Federal Plaza attracts protestors , " Tilted Arc " has become a repeated target for graffiti . In addition , it bisects one of the 15 all too few open spaces in lower Manhattan . 16 It places those of us who enter and leave 17 18 19 20 21 22 Federal Plaza behind a 12 by 120 foot iron curtain obliterating the view . I believe you have heard and will hear from others on the importance of open space in the urban environment . . We have also read of the argument 23 that " Tilted Arc " is so site - specific that 24 25 to relocate it is to destroy it . Nonsense . One only has to walk six ( 6 ) blocks north to NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 111 2 the Holland Tunnel exit to another Richard Serra look-a- like piece to see that " Tilted Arc " is 3 4 not unique and that it is artistically strong 5 6 enough to exist in a variety of locations . There seems also to be a fear that 7 8 removal will damage the Art - in- Architecture Program and art in general . The program will 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 222 23 24 25 survive this brouhaha about " Tilted Arc " and indeed it will be a better program because of the local public participation . We wish to thank the individuals and the system which brought about this public hearing . In 1981 over 2,000 signatures from my agency and others were sent to GSA in a spontaneous effort to protest the installation of "Tilted Arc . " We who have been so impacted for so long and who have felt so ineffecutal welcome this public forum. We merely ask that when you make your decision about the plaza and " Tilted Arc " you remember those of us who have to live with it and work behind it day after day after day . Thank you. (applause ) NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 112 2 3 4 5 6 7 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Thank you, Mr. Philips . Now, we have Philip Glass . MR . GLASS : Thank you. I would like 8 to thank you for the opportunity to contribute my thoughts to this hearing . I am a composer and performing appearing regularly with my own ensemble in concerts of In this context , I am presenting 9 10 my own music . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 concerts for the past 15 years in North America , Europe and the Far East . I would say this amounts to about 50 concerts a year at present . I have performed in major concert halls , opera houses and quite often outdoors . I have performed in parks in all five ( 5 ) boroughs of New York City , specifically in Manhattan I have given concerts in the Dance Shell at Central Park , Delmerts 18 19 20 Park at 2nd Avenue and Lincoln Center ; Delmerts 21 22 23 24 25 Park at Lincoln Center , Plaza Second Avenue near the UN Building . This last , by the way , is a site often used to exhibit sculpture and , in fact , such an exhibit took place at the time of my concert I believe in 1972 . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I've introduced myself in this way to indicate that I know something about performance in public spaces . It has been said that Mr. Serra's "Tilted Arc " in Federal Plaza had somehow rendered the site unusable for public events . Such as the concerts I present . I would like to say emphatically this is simply not true . In the present situation with the " Tilted Arc" installed in the plaza there would easily be enough room to hold people more than you could hold in a ; concert hall . Furthermore , it is precisely in this kind of space and specifically this plaza that I would like to perform . 16 The association of my work with 17 18 the work of visual artists is close to me and 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this is particularly true in the case of Richard Serra's work , which I hold in the highest regard . There is another point I would like to very briefly make . There is something disturbing about the present proceedings and I would like to address myself to that . When I NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 114 2 see a project like Mr. Serra's " Tilted Arc " 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 under attack as it has been, I think along the following lines . This is a work that has been invited , selected , planned , studied and contracted over a period of three ( 3) years . There cannot be the least cause for surprise on the part of the General Services Administration regarding the intention of Mr. Serra or the appearance of the finished work . Yet , somehow, the is an attempt being made to set all this aside . This hearing itself seems to me 12 13 14 15 outside the due process accorded to the creation of the work in the first place . When an authorized , approved , planned 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talking about a graffiti artist . work of art is attacked in this way I have to think that what we have here is a freedom of expression issue . In other words , the way I see it a part of the community would like to deny Mr. Serra the artistic freedom which must be a part and necessary condition for his work. as an artist . And , don't forget , and this is an important point , he was invited . We are not He was asked NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREET.SUITE311•NEWYORKNY10038

1 115 2 to place his work here . A known work , not 3 5 6 unforeseen in any way. Certainly in a good society , a just society , a democratic society all these that we have aspirations for , freedom of speech , 7 artistic expression and artistic freedom are 8 among our most precious possessions . 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 An attack on artistic freedom to me is a political act pure and simple and must be resisted with all our will . When our basic freedoms are attacked in this way our ability to stand up and fight for those fundamental beliefs is the best measure of the political health of our society . Clearly , every generation has to make this discovery or rediscovery for itself . The continuation and renewal of the American ideals of social justice depend on that . Thank you. (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Glass . 22 23 24 Tilton? 25 Is this a Mr. Tilton here? Jack MR . TILTON : Yes . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 116 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : Could you please call your office ? An emergency . Okay , Michael Chuisano . If I have that wrong , please correct me . MR. CHUISANO: Speaking as a federal employee working at 1 Federal Plaza I want to be totally honest in saying that the sculpture in front of our building has made working here much less enjoyable than it was before the sculpture was erected . It used to be very pleasant to walk out of the building and see an open space with a fountain in the warm weather and see people sitting on the ledge of the fountain talking or having lunch or sunning themselves . Now, all we see is a very unattractive slab of discolored metal , which must mean something to the artist who created it , but its meaning and beauty continue to be a mystery to the majority of people who have seen it at least that I personally know of . I myself participated in a beautiful Flag Day ceremony which was held in the plaza before the sculpture went up . The Marine Band played and there was entertainment and the plaza NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

117 1 2 seemed full of happy people . This kind of event is now made impossible 3 4 5 6 because of the presence of " Tilted Arc . " Speaking for myself and everyone I have ever discussed this subject with, either at 1 Federal 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Plaza or 26 Federal Plaza , we would all be much happier without it . ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : The next speaker is Edward Aames and some panel members have asked me after Mr. Aames speaks if we could take a short break here . Thank you . Mr. Aames . MR . AAMES : Thank you . 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 24 25 I am Edward Aames and I am president of the Art Commission for the City of New York . The Art Commission was founded in 1898 with a mandate to review plans and proposals for any art , architecture or landscape architecture proposed for city propery . The members include an architect , a landscape architect , a painter , a sculpture , three ( 3 ) laymembers , representatives of the Metropolitan Museum of Art , The Brooklyn Museum, NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10038 1 1 118 2 The New York Public Library , and a Mayor's repre3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 192020 21 2 223 2 335 24 25 sentative . The Commission has the responsibility to approve or reject projects based on aesthetic standards while paying careful attention to related environmental and humanistic concerns . We feel strongly that the decisions regarding placing a work of art , constructing a building or designing a park are complex and require careful study . The Art Commission is the city governmental body mandated to review designs on aesthetic grounds for projects on city property . We meet several times a month and we know from our experience over the years that making decisions affecting the public environment is difficult and ultimately subjective . Therefore , we do not want to make an aesthetic judgement concerning Richard Serra's "Tilted Arc . " For this we defer to the expertise of the General Services Administration panel of art professional who spent considerable time grappling with this question during the two ( 2 ) year period immediately proceeding the sculpture's NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

119 The presence of works of art in urban public spaces is an environmental and visual 1 2 installation in 1981 . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1211513 imperative which stimulates people to sharpen their aesthetic senses and to become far more observant and sensitive to public art and the general quality of the public environment . The aesthetic component of the controversy surrounding "Tilted Arc " can be seen as part of this experience . We support and encourage a continual dialogue through which the procedures for commissioning public works of art are modified We do not support the removal 14 and reviewed . 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of work that has been commissioned as permanent . The integrity of public art programs must be protected so that the bond between the government and the artists may be preserved . Thereby both parties are able to take risks and together explore limits artistic expression in public open spaces . The Art Commission of the City of New York supports the retention of Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc " in the only site where it should NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 120 2 exist , the site for which it was created at 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 which is commissioning permanent works of Federal Plaza . The removal of Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc" would set a dangerous precedent and erode people's confidence in the government's predicament to commission permanent works of art . This bears directly on New York City's recently inaugurated Percent for Art Program , 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 art for the city utilizing a process that has been carefully designed to involve arts professionals and community representatives . If our city , state and federal contracts and commitments are made in good faith, then government commissions truly give artists an essential aesthetic and creative freedom as well as critical support even if the works are contoversial . If contracts are not honored , artists might well hestitate to participate in government sponsored commissions and works of art will not be afforded the greater permanence that protects public architecture and landscape architecture . Quite beyond the legal question , when NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

121 1 2 3 4 5 government contracts are upheld with an artist , then on a national and as well on a local level this country is stating that it values artistic expression . 6 7 8 The willingness to commit public monies through commissions to support the work of living artists recognizes that both the artists 9 and their work are distinguishing national resource . Although, the issue of removing 10 11 Richard Serra's sculpture is not within our 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 24 25 official jurisdiction , sited as it is on federal property , it is within our moral and aesthetic province . The Art Commission of the City of New York feels that we must speak out in Mr. Serra's defense and urge that " Tilted Arc " remain . Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Aames . ( applause) MR . DIAMOND : We have to take a short break . We have 46 more speakers scheduled today , so please if some of you are here , we will be back in 10 or 15 minutes . Thank you . off the record . (Off the record ) NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 122 2 3 4 (Whereupon , a brief recess was taken ) MR . DIAMOND : On the record . We would like to reconvene , please . Because of a large number of speakers , we are 5 6 going to have to hold all future speakers to 7 the strict four ( 4 ) minute rule or else we will 8 not be able to have everyone who wants to be heard 9 to be heard in this afternoon's session . 10 So , please , when the alarm goes off 11 that means four ( 4 ) minutes and you will be 12 able to finish the sentence or the thought , 13 but then we have to go on to the next speaker . I believe we are scheduled now to 14 15 16117 18 19 20 hear from Helina Rosenthal . MS . ROSENTHAL : Honorable gentlemen; I have originally said honorable ladies and gentlemen , but since there are no ladies at this table ; my name is Helina Rosenthal . I am the president of Friends of the Upper East Side Historic Districts . I am also the director of several other civic organizations dealing with 21 22 matters of historic preservation , of urban plan- 23 24 25 2 23 ning , and other quality of life issues . I am here today speaking as a NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/044.9800

1 123 2 private citizen and I appreciate the opportunity 3 to be heard on an issue of principle when 4 New York City is the place where I live , work 5 and own property, I come before you because of 1 6 7 8 9 10 the concern that I have not only for our city or to the image that this hearing evokes and attempts to pass judgement on the merits of a piece of sculpture . No , I am here because of my concern for our own image as a great city , 11 as a great country , a remarkable society dedicated 12 13 to individual freedoms including the freedom of expression . 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 What is not at issue are certain facts . The fact that an American artist , Richard Serra , was commissioned to design , exhibit and install this very specific work and that this was done after an exhaustive review process . We know that the contract was duly signed and sealed by an experienced and sophisticated agency of the federal government . There 21 22 is no question whatsoever as to those facts . 23 The sculpture did not suddenly materialize to 24 25 anyone's surprise . The fact that to some persons ; to some NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 124 2 persons this work does not appear to be pretty 3 or lovable is not at issue either . 4 Art has seldom been loved or univer5 6 7 sally admired in its own time. I am sure that Stonehedge must have had its critics when it was first erected . 8 Michelangelo , as revered as he is now 9 had a hard time explaining some details of the Sistine Chapel when the work was first unveiled . 10 11 There was too much nudity . Rembrandt was ostra12 13 14 15 16 17 cized by the Berbers who hated the way he had painted them . He made them as they were . Warts and all . While they saw themselves as beautiful . He died a broken man . Closer to the present , Picasso was ridiculed by those who did not understand his 18 work and did not bother to try . And , then , 19 20 of course , there was Germany . Just before World War II , the contemporary art at that time 21 22 23 24 25 was considered an ; it was , however , carefully stored and preserved behind closed doors . Just in the event that it may have some value . It did . In recent years controversies were NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 125 2 resolved when reason prevails . What seems to 3 be obvious is what we never learn , do we? 4 We think of ourselves as civilized people , 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 enlighted , possessed of a sense of great culture and sensitive to the aesthetic values as expressed by the architecture and art that we see around us . Are we really? It is fine to be able to come here today and to express an opinion , but is it right ? No , it is not . So, we are here apparently to judge something that only time can judge because this is the only true test . I cannot accept the premise that we are here to make sure that what we do not 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 22 23 24 25 personally consider attractive or beautiful may interfere with our limited notion of what beauty is . Consider , is 26 Federal Plaza a beautiful building? It is definitely not . Please take a hard look at it and then look around you . Look at the handsome court houses which surround this square . Look at the ; white Municiple Building . There is beauty in scale and exuberant detail . Look at the exquisite City Hall designed NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 ⚫ NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 126 work of art mascarading as a bridge and look again how terribly inappropriate it was in the 2 by Joseph Francois Majan ( phonetic ) . Look at 3 the Brooklyn Bridge , the excitement of this 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2022 midst of this most significant and spendid architecture introduced as most unattrative ; federal building . Yes, examine it and in context with. what the landmarks around it are . We must restore our spirit . This is my conclusion . Okay , we must recapture the love for freedom which brought us here in the first place when this country was born out of lack of freedom elsewhere . We must recapture the desire to build , to create and art of our time . The destruction of art in any form must not be part of our heritage . The renegging on a bone fide contract 21 is not something that we have bargained for 22 when the country was founded. The destruction 23 24 25 of a man's spirit is something that is as it must be , totally foreign to us . We must not let it happen. NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

127 1 2 This is not the proper forum to 3 talk about the values inherent in a work of 4 art . Is that work liked or not . An artist 5 of national and international reputation should 6 7 not have to plead his case . This is not a country where such a thing should ever occur . 8 The facts before us are clear and the fate of the " Tilted Arc" on the plaza 9 10 11 was duly sealed when the agreement between honorable bodies was signed . 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Let us make this agreement good once and for all . For this truly is the only thing that is at issue here . Thank you very much for your time . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . MS . ROSENTHAL : By the way , I would like to tell you that when the statue of Nathan Hale was installed it was given to the City by a friend of mine , by her father , by George Montgomery; who is now dead told me that when it was installed there was controversy as to whether everybody liked it or not , so when the gentleman earlier this morning said today that this was one of the very few things that he NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 128 2 liked in the city he should be reminded of the 3 fact that when it was installed it created a 4 5 6 little bit of a controversy as well . Some parties didn't like it . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Ms. Rosenthal . MS . ROSENTHAL : Thank you. 7 8 Marguerite Strop . 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : MS . STROP : Over 20 years ago the General Services Administration at the recommendations of the Kennedy Administration , voluntarily assumed a policy of allocating one half of one ( 1 ) percent of each federal capital construction or re- construction appropriation to be allocated for the commission of work on this site . In the 1962 time reference this was a unique program of recognition on the role of the arts and the creation of art in the conscious of the public . It's birth was in the WPA Commissions of the 30s , but due to the reinvigoration of the early 70s by the time it reached its adolescence the word public art had become part of our everyday vernacular . The program, its NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 129 2 3 administration , commissioned artists and affected public grew as a child each year learning 4 from its experience . Both the exhilarating and 1 the disappointing . 5 6 7 8 It has grown now into young adulthood . A time to reassess , define and assume the responsibilities of maturity . This responsibility as the program , 9 10 has its ; components . 11 12 13 That of the administration . Primarily a role of guidance , direction and dissimination of public information . That of the artist , as the interpretor of the site , 14 its use , traffic , environmental and the aesthe15 16 tic needs of a given commissioned site . And , that of the public to inform itself of those 17 issues that may concern its visual and functional 18 environment by the installation of a public 19 work . 20 21 2222 232424 25 For 22 years the public , particularly those employees of the federal faction of newly built or remodeled federal buildings have been aware of the process of GSA's Art - in- Architecture Program. The process , selection committee and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 130 for public scrutiny and input . 2 3 and installations of new works by commissioned American artists have always been available 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 In 1982 the GSA Art- in-Architecture Program detecting a short fall and a need for reassessment in the process of selecting the artist , coordinating artist , site and specificity and adopting a program to more effectively involve the general public on the installation of newly commissioned work , altered their administrative role to better address these needs . The change then precipitated by the then broad awareness of the public and the artist of impact of the placement of work in public places . In 1981 an artist was selected by the process then in effect to create and present in design form a piece to be executed for 26 Federal Plaza . 21 22 23 The design , approved by appropriate officials of the GSA, was executed and installed . 24 Now, in 1985 we stand here examining a situation 25 of four ( 4) years hence and questioning the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK NY 10038

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 responsibility of public art . Whose responsibility? administration? That of an That has since redefined its process and attempts to more fully involve a broad public and , thereby , ensure cooperation and acceptance? The responsibility of the artist to conceive a piece that represents individual creativity while respecting the visual and use constraints of a given commissioned site ? Or , that of the public , to avail and inform themselves of the process , the attitude of the artist and the installation during that process? The three ( 3 ) fold responsibility of public art should not and cannot be taken lightly . Nor , can we reinforce retroactively . Hopefully, through this experience we all , the administrators of public art programs , the artists hoping to create work for public places and the public the audience and recipients of these works , will gain the strength and adapt21 22 23 24 Thank you . 25 ability to address these needs and this responsibility and thus grow wiser as we grow older . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 131 5BEEKMANSTREETSUITE311.NEWYORK22 10034

1 132 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. Thank you , Ms. Strop . Now, Sue Delehanty . MS . DELEHANTY : My name is Suzanne Delehanty and I'm the director of the Newburger Museum of the State University of New York at Purchase . My own background begins with ancient art and has stretched to ; stretches to the 20th century . I am here really to speak on behalf of Richard Serra and as one of the panelists invited to nominate artists for the commission under discussion this week . I thought it might be helpful to describe some of the criteria that the members of the panel used back in 1979 when the selection 18 19 20 took place . All of us I believe recall the 21 22 23 24 25 weight of that decision . We had been asked to help to select an artist for an important public commission for a significant court of law . The sculpture was permanent , so our decision would not only serve our own generation , but would serve NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 133 2 future generations of Americans . 3 We were really guided by a principle that has guided public art since antiquity , 4 5 the spirit of place . This concept embraces 6 not only the visible aspects of an urban site but also the invisible attributes of the loca- 7 8 tion . 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 242525 In the case of New York City , we obviously have to nominate artists whose work would not be overwhelmed by a city of skyscrapers and such miracles of engineering as the Brooklyn. Bridge , that can be seen for miles around . No less formidable with the invisible attributes of the city . The artist would have to be capable of reflecting New York's role as a great world capital and as an international center for the arts . In addition , the work would have to capture the energy , enterprise and fast movement of the city's inhabitants . Thirdly , and with the greatest of concentration , we focused on the physical and symbolic dimensions of the specific site . That is , the then new federal court house in NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

134 1 2 plaza in Foley Square . With all due respect , the design of 3 4 the court house and the plaza was not distinguished . It was no doubt the result of zoning regulations 5 6 based on budget savings rather than architectural 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 integrity and the public benefit . Thus , the artist would have to be talented enough and courageous enough to transfer the entire site . Fourthly , and equally important , we considered the human activity and the invisible function of the place . A widely used court house. at Foley Square required a work of art that expressed the dignity and democratic principles upon which our judicial system is founded . Serra met all the criteria . He was an immiment artist and he is still today . He has international stature , and he is a master of his craft . He had pioneered site - specific sculpture and , furthermore , his works invited public participation and engaged us , the viewer , in the creative process in a way that no sculpture of an ; hero can . As much as these monuments are objects NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 135 2 of our affection , they reflect a time when 3 4 cities were made of buildings three ( 3 ) stories high. So, I suspect the critics of Mr. Serra's 5 work are , in fact , expressing first the nostal6 gia we all feel for an irretrievable past , for those cities with three ( 3 ) story high buildings . 7 8 I think that people are expressing the loss we all share because the arts as a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 rule are given little importance in the American system of education . And , I believe that the critics are all expressing the outrage invoked by the architecture of the court house itself . To remove and thereby destroy Serra's sculpture , will not solve these problems . I wish this hearing was really ways to find And , 18 19 202321 creative solutions to these problems . Its removal , however, will destroy our belief in the government committed to the arts as an essential part of a civilized society . MR . DIAMOND : ( applause ) Thank you . Thank you . 22 23 242525 list as Mrs. Jacobs . Is that Mrs. Robert Jacobs ? MR . DIAMOND : We have next on the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

136 MS . JACOBS : Is this the one that Can you hear me? My name is Margo Jacobs . I am a physical anthropologist . 1 2 works? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122322 23 24 25 I am a thoroughbred horse breeder and I am also married to Robert Allen Jacobs , one of the architects of the federal office building and International Court of Trade , however , today I speak to you not as the wife of one of the architects , but as an individual and as a member of the public . I have lived and worked in New York City for 45 years , 20 of them in this area . I have a bachelor of arts degree in Art and Architectural history from New York University . I realize that my views or anyone's views of the sculpture presently occupying the plaza , are subjective and personal , but what we are meeting to discuss today is not whether or not we like the sculpture , but what the sculpture's affect is on the public and on the plaza . The public's space , which it presently occupies . In my view, the sculpture does not belong in the Federal Plaza because it is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

137 1 2 hostile both to its environment and hostile to 3 the public since it acts as a barrier to their 4 5 6 free movement . The plaza is both an intregral part of the design of the Federal Office Building and Court house and at the same time an extention 7 8 9 10 of Foley Square Park . This plaza was not designed to be an empty space , but it was designed as a place for people and for their 11127 public assembly . The plaza is a site - specific work of art incorporating a geometric pavement design . Now disrupted . The design invited us to follow its pathways from the courthouse to the fountain , from the street to the office building . It's antecedents are in Roman pavement designs specifically the Campadoglio ( phonetic ) in Rome . Done by Michelangelo . Modern use of pavement design may be seen today at Madison Avenue and 78th Street in front of the Graham Gallery designed I believe by Alexander Cølder . When we go back in history we find that the plaza is based on European models of NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 22 23 2 335 24 25 212/964-7589

1 138 2 town and city squares or piazzas . The function 3 4 of the plaza or piazza or square has always been to encourage members of the public and workers 5 from the area to mingle , congregate , move freely 6 back and forth . To sun, to snack , to exchange 7 ideas and maybe telephone numbers . 8 Historically the plaza has always 9 been a dynamic place with constant action , the 10 move and flow of people . A plaza represents 1112712 13 14 15 16 17 18 the best in urban design . A place for people in an open space made in the human dimensions . This is what we had in Foley Square Plaza until a 120 foot long , 12 foot high metal sculpture was placed in the center , cutting the plaza in half and reducing its effectiveness as a public place and possibly making it a dangerous place to be when a large number of 19 20 2122 people congregate at once as they do in political demonstrations that we have all seen on the 7:00 news . We are not here to discuss the merits 22 23 24 25 of the sculpture , but only the place it was put . Its placement is at best , hostile to its environment and it negates the use of the open space . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 139 2 Mr. Serra's work of art , according to 3 him, was deliberately designed to change , alter 4 and dislocate someone else's artistic creation . This is wrong . The architects and landscape architects , or beleive it ^ not, consider themselves to be artists , 5 6 7 too . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2020 21 22 23 24 25 How would Mr. Serra feel is someone came in today and destroyed his design? From what I hear he would not like it . Let us not lose what city dwellers prize so highly, an open space , for use by people to pause in their hectic pace to rest , to savor the sun , the splashing of the fountain, to reflect and then to take up their busy lives again . May I invite the committee in closing to once again look at the plaza and envisage it as it once was intended and was a beautiful and harmonious place . Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . (applause ) MR. DIAMOND : Vickie O'Dougherty . MS . O'DOUGHERTY : I am Vickie O'Dougherty . I am a representative , a physical securites NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 140 2 3 4 5 specialist for the Federal Protection and Safety Division of GSA. My main purpose here is to present you the aspects from the security angle , which 6 affects us in the ; execution of our duties here . The arc is what I consider to be what I consider 7 8 to be a security hazard or a disadvantage . My main contention is that it presents a blast 9 10 wall affect and I will get into more of this . It's 120 feet long , 12 feet high and 11 12 13 14151 16 17 18 19 20 it's angled in a direction towards both federal buildings , Number One Federal Plaza and 26 Federal Plaza . The front curvature of the design is comparable to devices which are used by bomb experts to vent explosive forces , for instance , they have bomb trucks designed for this purpose , which are cylindrical in shape and this is half a cylinder or a quarter of a cylinder whichever and it's angled comparable to that . The purpose of these bomb trucks or 21 22 bomb devices are to vent explosions upward . 23 This one vents an explosion ; could vent an 24 25 explosion both upward and in an angle toward both buildings . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

141 1 2 3 Now, in past experience we have had several explosions on federal property by 4 terrorists , activists . The principle that they used were two ( 2 ) fold . They used many times 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this type of device , a wall or something like that to vent the explosion against the building . Most of the time the wall was closer to the building . It would, of course , take a larger bomb than which has been previously used do this kind of; to destroy enough for their purposes , but it is possible and lately we are expecting the worse in the federal sector . That is why I am; ( laughter ) MS . O'DOUGHERTY : (Interposing ) Yes . Most people do express their opinions against us in either violent ways or with graffiti and those other types of ways . We are considering right now many , many anti-terrorist type of devices to install in the building , but we already have some that exist , which are pro- terrorist . One of the problems ; ( laughter ) NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10038

1 142 2 MS . O'DOUGHERTY : ( Interposing ) One other 3 problem that we have is the graffiti problem . 4 That wall , pardon , the " Tilted Arc" is used more 5 for graffiti purposes than any of the other walls . 6 We have found that through experience . Most 7 of the graffiti is done on the other side where 8 we cannot view it . 9 Loitering for illegal purposes , is 10 another problem that we experience and we do have the problem with drug dealings , which we 11 12 We , 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cannot see from our side of the building . by the way , only concern ourselves with the federal side of the building . Most of the time because of the fact that we do not concern ourselves with jurisdictions which are not which is the state side and the street side . So, from our side of the building , we cannot see what goes on near the fountain and in areas around the fountain . Basically we consider that if the arc stays we can adapt , but the problem is that we have limited manpower , limited people to do the job of enforcing any kind of problems which go on around the arc and we also , if there were NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 143 2 to be an explosion on our side of the arc , we 3 4 can probably expect to have a great deal of property damage in the form of glass shattering . 5 6 7 8 If it's during the day time this could mean loss of life . If it's during the night time then it's property damage , however , it does cost money to replace glass . 9 All right , so mainly our contention is that it could be a blast wall used for some10 11 one else's purposes , not ours and that it could 12 13 be a place to ; that would ferment criminal activities . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . 14 ( applause ) 15 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. 16 Now, we have Louis Reisman . 17 MS . REISMAN : Good afternoon . Thank 18 you, members of the ; 19 20 MR . DIAMOND : ( Interposing) Louise . 21 I am sorry . 22 MS . REISMAN: Louise . MR. DIAMOND : I apologize . 23 24 25 to speak . MS . REISMAN : I am from the Middle Income Housing Thank you for allowing me NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 144 2 3 4 5 6 Cooperative , Chatten Green ( phonetic ) two ( 2 ) blocks away from here . At a recent meeting the majority of the cooperators approved my viewpoint . In the errands ; of my daily life 7 I often walk in this area . The luxury of the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 openness of Foley Square is one of the pleasures of a passerby . It is sort of my front yard . For air and space in Manhattan you know we have to resort to setbacks on high or interior greenways which pretend at such . In the past 20 years this neighborhood of low, low buildings has been inundated and surrounded with the Metropolitan Correctional Institution , Police Headquarters , the Telephone building and 26 Federal Plaza , which cut off our of the sky to the west . How few of us have roomy apartments . How many feel the need for space , vistas and horizons . In the past several years practically 21 22 23 24 25 is rampant , graffiti abounds . every store in this neighborhood has been split into two ( 2 ) and three ( 3 ) spaces , crowding NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 145 2 3 4 5 We need honest resting places where for our eyes and mind . A square such as this is somewhat of an oasis . Plaza is not the most handsome building , but Perhaps 26 Federal at least it is far set back from the street 6 7 8 9 10 and the architects seem to have planned a generous long stair approach to enhance the feeling of grace . These stairs forming a plaza are 11 simple and at peace with the atmosphere . architects knew what they were doing . The 12 They 13 certainly could not have wanted the building 14 plaza to be sliced in half . Mr. Serra says that he wanted to 15 16 challenge the space and change the viewer's 17 18 19 20 experience . This he has done to the viewer's detriment . In 1981 the committee superintendent of the destruction of the architectural honesty 21 of 26 Federal Plaza . What right had the committee 22 to destroy its design? The ; rusting iron fence 23 24 25 called a " Tilted Arc " destroys the architect's creation , is a maximum pill for citizens to swallow. It is minimal as to artistic design NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

146 1 2 and minimal in meaning . 3 As Grace Gluck said in her recent New York Times article , " Tilted Arc" is one of 4 the ugliest pieces of public art in New York 5 6 City . It's a domineering work that bullies the plaza and I agree to that . 7 In New York and probably elsewhere 8 works of art have been removed from their 9 10 original places . The statue of Amerigo Vespucci 11 long at the Battery has been removed , Civic Virtue has been removed and the murals of 11 (1) Deago Romera were removed or covered over at 12 13 14 the RCA Building . 15 16 17 18 19 20 Nothing stays the same . As a citizen whose money you are spending and have spent , we have the right to say no, this piece gives us ulcers not aesthetic pleasure . It is negative and useless . There is no idea, no humor , no education value , no nothing . It looks barren , it is barren . It has the virtue of scrap iron . Do 21 22 we need scrap iron in our midst? No, we do 23 not . 24 25 In 1981 when this was being mounted , two ( 2 ) artists from Chatten Green glancing NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 147 2 3 at the construction while passing by expressed dismay at the city for spending so much money 4 to put up an iron fence defied construction and 5 a workers ' tools , because they thought it was 6 a temporary fence . Neither of them thought of it as a work of art . 7 A mother and a child were passing 8 9 10 by when I recently walked behind them . The child said to the mother , what is that ? The She was 11 mother said it's a big brown thing . right . 12 No more , no less . And , we have been 13 had . I ask that you remove the fence now . 14 Thank you . 15 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : All right . Come on , let's keep it in decorum. Please no hissing . If you don't like the speaker , just don't applaud . Robert Ryman , please . MR . RYMAN : This sculpture is a beautiful , well- conceived work involving the plaza and the surround and New York should be proud to have it . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 C 1 148 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 This morning on arriving , I was looking at the plaza from across the street and from the side with the trees and from close in, and it's hard to believe that there could be such a controversy over this sculpture . I won't take time with repetitions . I support the statement by the president of the art commission and the City of New York , don't destroy this sculpture . Keep it . For the citizens in New York and the work . MR . DIAMOND : ( applause) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . William Reuben . MR . REUBEN : My name is William Reuben and I am director of the Department of Painting and Sculpture at the Museum of Modern Art . That in our opinion Richard Serra is one of the major sculptor on the scene of world art is indicated by the fact that he 212222 23 24 25 will shortly have a large retrospect of exhibition of his work at the Museum of Modern Art . This said , the observations that NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/984.7600 C 1 149 2 follow must be understood as personal . 3 4 Richard Serra's "Tilted Arc " is a powerful work of great artistic merit . Like many creations of modern art 5 since its beginnings in the 19th century , 6 7 " Tilted Arc" is also a challenging work that 8 obliges us to question received values in general 9 and the nature of art and of art's relation to 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 191 20 21 22 23 24 25 the public in particular . It was chosen carefully by art professionals and others who have the responsibility to make such choices . Now, as I understand it a number of people working at Federal Plaza are petitioning for its removal , which since it is a site- specific work , effectively means its destruction . Their objections to the work involved negative judgements about it as art as well as complaints that it obstructs free movement in the plaza . This last would , of course , be equally true if fountains , gardens and other forms of enhancing and articulating architectural spaces . About 100 years ago the impressionist NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10036 212/964-7589

1 150 2 Gauguin Cezanne and post- impressionist artist Monet , Gogan , Sayzon (phonetic) for example , artists whose works are 3 4 5 6 conceived and constructed . 7 8 today prized universally were being reviled as ridiculous by the public and the established press . At that time , the Eiffel Tower was being Only to be greeted by much the same ridicule . 9 Leading architects of the day as well 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 as writers and philosophers to say nothing of the man on the street , condemned it , the tower as a visual obscenity . Although , the tower was mounted with the understanding that it would be dismantled 50 years after its realization for the World's Fair of 1889 , calls were heard for its immediate destruction . By the end of the 50 year period in 1939 , however , the impressionist and postimpressionist have long since been accepted by our culture as great voices of the western tradition and the Eiffel Tower had become so popular that all the school children of Paris contributed pennies to the fund which made possible this moment's preservation . I tell the story because it illustrates NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 151 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 a truth that seems to me very relevant in the present situation . Namely , that truly challenging works of art require a period of time before their artistic language can be understood by a broader public . I am not familiar with whatever legal arguments might attend the destruction of "Tilted Arc" , but even posing this question now seems to me inappropriate and unethical . By this I do not mean to say that an owner of a work of art be it architecture , sculpture of painting , can never ever under any circumstances contemplate the removal come destruction which is at issue here , but that is 16 17 such a grave decision , should certainly not 18 19 even be contemplated until the work and its public can pass through a period of time required 20 21 22 23 24 25 for the artistic language of the work to become familiar so that this larger public can at least have a more informed opinion . I must say that I have never heard of the removal of public monument having been settled by popular vote . If that is what is being conNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSLUITE210NEW YORK

1 152 2 templated here . 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 precedent . As it seems to me a most dangerous Moreover , the decision should it seems to me involve the sentiments of a much wider circle than simply those who work in its immediate neighborhood . The society as a whole has a stake in such works of art , but certainly the consideration of any such move should not be responsible to pressue tactics and above all should not take place before the sculpture's artistic language can become familiar . I , therefore , propose that consider11 12 13 14 15 16 of at least 10 years . 17 ation of this issue be deferred for a period I am convinced that a decade from now many of " Tilted Arc's " critics 18 will have very different opinions . In any event , 19 any question of destroying this sculpture could 20 21 22 23 24 25 then be approached in a calmer , more philosophical and certainly more informed and equitable spirit . Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Reuben . ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Edward Leffingwell . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 MR. LEFFINGWELL : I am speaking of a representative for the Institute for Arts and Urban Resources for which I serve as Chief Curator and for its executive director , Alona Heiss . There are two ( 2 ) issues that seem to be at variance here . The immediate issue of integrity of an agreement between the GSA and Richard Serra and the underlying issue that we might call concern for the quality of life . Is it possible that " Tilted Arc " a site- specific sculpture created for the Federal Plaza after a thorough evaluation concerning the work and its relation to the site , can adversely affect the quality of life of those who view it? The GSA's involvement in such projects 18 19 is a direct commitment to the enhancement of 20 the quality of life . The artist has made a 21 22 23 24 25 commitment by virture of the act of making art to the enrichment of the quality of life . Certainly the product of such wellintentioned consideration must enhance the quality of life . Perhaps the lack of partiNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 154 2 cipation by the affected public in the original 3 process of decision has lead to this perception 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 of betrayal on the part of the government on the one hand and of the artist on the other . But , the time for this forum is appropriately before the fact rather than after it . With an inbred lack of balance necessary to this sytem, there is a suspicion that becomes the inherent vice of this process . The government's responsibility in 11 12 13 14 this case considering the process operative in the agreement that brought about " Tilted Arc " did not cease at the point of dedication , nor 15 the artist at the time of inspiration . We are here to continue a dialectic 16 which should be creative rather than destructive . 17 18 This work is not art as commodity . It is not 19 the sort of object selected and collected , poss20 essed , disposed of or disregarded . 21 These factors of acquisition are not operative here because the work is in a different sort of system . It is a public monu22 23 24 25 the arts . ment to the people's belief in and support of NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 155 involved because this agreement is threatened 2 We do not discuss this piece or this agreement as though we were sitting in discreet 3 4 judgement . We are involved in it . We are 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 with violation . If that agreement is abnegated for the artist Richard Serra it is also violated for the public in general for all of us and not solely for those who are personally committed to it or offended by the work this year or this month or this day. This work physically embodies elements endurance and perhaps it is that monumental fact that appalls its opponents . It survives to remind us beyond its aesthetic qualities that deal with volumentric space , scale , shape , that we are here in an urban landscape that has been systematically dehumanized by buildings that often have no such considerations for space , scale , shape . Considerations that are made on the level of 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 process . humans . The process of the artist is the human Richard Serra has made a thoroughly NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 156 2 human commitment in his work . 3 4 5 6 The offering of this work in this public context provides an opportunity for all of us to engage in that commitment . The dialogue engendered belongs here and on the plaza . There will be no dialogue 7 8 if this work is conveyed to the National Collec9 10 tion of Fine Arts or the Smithsonian Institution because the work as it was intended will cease to 11 exist . 12 13 The integrity of the government's commitment to its artists will also cease to 14 exist . The implications of that are not unthink15 able . They are antithetical to what we believe 16 in or say we do and rend the fabric of our 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 public trust . We should be bound together by the creative expression and not separated . As " Tilted Arc" cannot be separated from Federal Plaza and still exists . Thank you . (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Harold Foster . MR . FOSTER : My name is Harold Foster . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 157 2 I am senior editor of Art in America magazine . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I am also a critic and I teach at Pratt Institute . I am here today to speak in strong support of " Tilted Arc " and against its removal from the plaza . I agree with the artist that this constitutes its destruction . It is not secret that Richard Serra is deeply involved with the most important recent development in sculpture . That is to say it is site - specificity . It's total involvement with its setting . The GSA or its panel is fully aware of this involvement when it selected Mr. Serra for this project . It is simple bad faith to assert otherwise now and to move against the sculpture . There is also , from what I understand , illegal . The violation not only of contractual agreements with Mr. Serra , but also of New York's Artists Authorship rights law . Plus , most importantly , the removal of " Tilted Arc " might constitute an extremely unfortunate precedent , a violation of trust that only with artists in general in regard to NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 158 2 3 4 public art , but with the public concerned with such arts . Such art is a public affair as this hearing makes clear and I oppose any sign of any withdrawal of government support for such 5 6 art . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 This brings me to my main point . This work is a public work . One which does not demand consensus , indeed , it exists for discussion , for disagreement even . I understand the position of its opponents , but these opponents must understand that there are pro- ponents at work in the neighborhood . I live a few blocks north and elsewhere , who use the plaza to bring people here expressly to experience the work who fully support it and who would be greatly diminished by its absence . As I think finally would its opponents 18 19 20 for without this work and works like it there is 21 22 23 no discussion , no argument here about art , its place in this plaza , in this community , in the 24 public realm . 25 Again , no work, no discussion . That is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREET.SUITE311.NEW VARK 2V 10030

1 15 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 what I fear most . For this discussion and discussions like it are extremely important , not only to the art community , but to the greater public , to its consciousness of itself . A consciousness absolutely necessary to any democracy . Thank you. MR. DIAMOND : Thank you . (applause) MR . DIAMOND : Gene Heighstein . MR . HEIGHSTEIN : I am a professional 11 sculptor who kept a studio across the street 12 13 from Number One Federal Plaza for several years 14 prior to the Richard Serra installation . During 15 that time I grew familiar with the usage pattern 16 of the plaza and since the sculpture was erected 17 I have had occasion to walk through the plaza 18 19 2020 21 22 23 24 2522 23 many times . As I understand it , the work was commissioned for this particular site and various feasibility studies were carried out to determine its impact on the plaza . It evidently passed these feasibility studies , since the sculpture has been installed in the plaza for four ( 4 ) years . "Tilted Arc " NATION-WIDE

1 160 been a surprise to anyone either working in the building or with the General Services Administration . 2 seems consistent with the general body of Mr. 3 Serra's work and so its form should not have 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 In other words , the selection and screening committees knew what they were getting into . It is now four ( 4 ) years later . The sculpture has just begun to be seen as belonging to its site . I fully realize that it is a contoversial sculpture and that we are here today because of this controversy , but I urge you to retain the sculpture at its site for two ( 2 ) reasons . First , " Tilted Arc" has hardly come to rest . It has been involved in controversy since its installation and has never been given a test of time . A work of art is never seen clearly at the time of its creation and the judgement of the public upon seeing the work of art for the first time is notoriously wrong . How many works of art were ridiculed at their first exhibition only to be reinstated NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 1C 1 161 2 years later . 3 "Tilted Arc" may turn out to be the 4 pride of New York in the future . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Secondly, and more to the point , it would be destructive to both the whole notion of public art , which has been rejuventated and nurtured in the last 20 years , as well as the credibility of the General Services Administration to dismantle this work against the wishes of the artist . It would set a precedent of mistrust towards the promises government makes to the art . This is contrary to the whole spirit that the government has fostered in supporting the arts in America . As a resident of this area , and as an artist with some experience in installing public sculpture , it is my observation that the fountain and not the sculpture was the greater deterrent to the use of the plaza . Depending on which way the wind was blowing , one half or the other of the plaza was covered with water . As a result , the fountain was generally left off on hot days in what could NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 162 2 have made the plaza a very attractive place . Rather than removing the sculpture , 3 4 5 6 I suggest the General Services Administration commission someone to redesign the plaza , so that it is in better rapport , not only with. the sculpture , but also with the needs of the 7 8 people using the plaza . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. Thank you . 9 10 11 12 13 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Loyd Merril. Is there a Lovd Merril in the audience ? (No Response ) MR . DIAMOND : If not , we will go on 14 15 to the next speaker . 16 17 Rosylin Cross . MS . CROSS : I am Rosylin Cross , professor of art history at the City University of New York and an art critic . 18 As I understand it , this hearing has 19 been convened to discuss the various uses , the 20 term I think is alternate uses , to which Federal 21 22 23 24 25 Plaza might be put . This is to imply that the use to which it is largely committed at present is a non-use . However , I wish to contest this notion . For NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 16 2 I think it is important when speaking of alterna3 tive uses to consider the existing one . And , to 4 begin with a simple fact that the presence of 5 Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc" invests a major 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 portion of its site with the use we must call aesthetic . Far different from the intermittent activities of band concerts or summer picnics , this aesthetic use , and presumably this was the thinking of the GSA when it initially made its Percent for Art ruling , this aesthetic use is open to every person who enters and leaves the building of this complex and it is open to each and every one of them everyday . Given this premise , I think it is important to understand the specific operations of this use as it is brought into being by " Tilted 17 18 19 Arc . " And , this means that we should try to 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 335 grasp something of " Tilted Arc's " meaning as a work of art . As an extraordinary work of modern sculpture . Let us start with the premise that sculpture has always taken its subject as its subject , the representation of the human body . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

164 1 Bodies sitting , standing , riding horseback , raising 2 3 flags , extending blessings . It has been the 4 task of sculpture to produce these bodies . 5 During the modern art of this century these bodies took on an increasing abstract and 6 7 geometricized form. A simplification which none 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the less carried on the idea that bodies occupy the space around us and that we experience these bodies from the outside , looking at them in order to master them. To take their measure . culate their mass and form . To calIn contrast to this , sculpture that evolved in this country in the 1960s and 70s a sculptural movement called minibalism ( phonetic ) of which Richard Serra is a preimmiment figure , this sculpture was conceived in relation to a different premise . Bodies were still to be represented by sculpture , but bodies now in their aspect as inhabited . The human body not as it is understood from without , but as it is lived from within . In order to carry out this aesthetic intention , these sculptors understood that the body as lived was necessarily involve them in an NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 2 abstract level of representation . 165 For if I 3 extend my arm to reach to pick up something , or 5 to catch an object before it falls , I do not think of my hand , my arm, my shoulder . I think 6 of the space that must be bridged between me and 7 the object I am reaching for . 8 9 10 11 These gestures and movements are thus more representable as vectors and trajectories , trajectories that isthrough space , than they are as bone and muscle and skin . The kind of vector " Tilted Arc " explores is that of vision . More specifically , what it 12 13 means for vision to be invested with a purpose , 14 15 so that if we look out into space it is not just 16 a vacant stare that we cast in front of us , but an 17 act of looking that expects to find an object , 18 19 a direction , a goal . This is the purposiveness of vision or 20 21 to use another term, vision's intentionality . For the spectator of " Tilted Arc " this sculpture 22 23 24 25 is constantly mapping , a kind of projectile of. the gaze that starts at one end of Federal Plaza and like the embodiment of the concept of visual perspective , maps the path across the plaza that NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 166 2 the spectator will take . In this sweep , which is simultaneously 3 4 visual and corporeal , " Tilted Arc" described the 5 body's relation to forward motion . To the fact 6 7 that if we move ahead it is because our eyes have already reached out in order to connect 8 9 10 us with the place to which we intend to go . Like vision , its sweep exists simultaneously here and there . Here , where I am 11 sited and there , where I already imagine myself 12 to be . 13 14 15 of art . In the beauty of its doing this , "Tilted Arc" establishes itself as a great work 16 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Ms. Cross . ( applause ) 17 MR . DIAMOND : Please , no negative 18 19 comments . Bill Barret . 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( No Response ) MR. DIAMOND : Is Mr. Barret here? (No Response ) MR. DIAMOND : Julia Brown . MS . BROWN : My name is Julia Brown . I am senior curator of the Museum of Contemporary NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 167 2 Art in Los Angeles . 3 4 I worked for five ( 5) years as project manager for the GSA Art - in-Architecture Program and was responsible for the administration of 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2515 the project that resulted in the " Tilted Arc" commission . I was present and GSA staff representative at the original nominating panel made up of art professionals appointed by the National Endowment for the Arts and including representatives of the architect of the building that nominated Serra and four ( 4 ) other artists from among hundreds of possible choices from around the country. I was also present at the GSA Art - inArchitecture panel that recommended Serra for final selection for the commisssion by the GSA administrator . I negotiated the contract between the government and Serra for the work and was present at the GSA Art - in- Architecture panel at which Serra first presented his proposal for the site . At this time questions were raised regarding placement of the work on the plaza NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 168 2 in terms of public access , lighting , maintenance , 3 4 etc. Serra addressed these questions in his design, resubmitted his proposal and the proposal was approved by the GSA. I go through these steps to illustrate 5 6 7 the process of the Art - in- Architecture Program. 8 9 A process that has been operated for a national program developed over a long period of time 10 11 12 13 and very rigorous and deliberate in terms of its responsibilities in making the choices and decisions in a review and selection process . At each stage of this process , which Serra was chosen and asked to make a work for 14 15 this space on the basis of a thorough knowledge 16 17 of his past work and his proven ability to make a work of high quality that would be of 18 19 20 212222 23 25 2 33 24 a size , scale and presence that could be meaningful in this plaza and with the surrounding architecture . In all stages of the decision- making process , it was understood by Serra and by the government that Serra was making a permanent work for that specific space . That principle is one of the founNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/084.9688

1 169 2 dations of the GSA Art - in-Architecture Program . 3 4 5 It is a national program that seeks to commission works of art of the highest quality for federal buildings across the country that will be to as 6 7 8 9 10 11 large extent possible integral to the sites and spaces in question . To remove the work would undermine a program and a process that has been important to the cultural life of cities around the country and which has served as a model for countless programs of public art on the state and local 12 13 level . 14 15 These programs have developed in large part because of the significance and contributions of the GSA Art - in- Architecture Program. To 16 17 remove this work would also counter an agreement 18 that was made between the artist and the gover19 20 nment , which was entered into in every stage with careful and responsible deliberation . 21 22 23 24 25 The public of this work as for all the work commissioned by the GSA Art - in-Architecture Program, is not only the employees of the building , but all the visitors who do business with the government , the immediate community NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 170 2 of the building and the City of New York . This work is not made only for the 3 4 present , but for future audiences . "Tilted Arc" was responsibly commiss- 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ioned for this space . Out of respect for this process and in light of the large audience and in terms of the work being there over time , "Tilted Arc" should not be removed . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . (applause ) Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : I have Herbert Stupp next . 12 13 Is he here? 14 15 MR . STUPP : Good afternoon . I am Regional Director of Action , which is a small federal agency that is a tenant in this building . One of your smaller tenants . I appreciate this opportunity to comment on the proposed use of the plaza outside this building and I commend General Services Administration , Bill Diamond , in particular , for seeking 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 had been invited in the late 1970s a chant of the views of those who spend a good portion of their lives here . It is fair to say that if public comment NATION-WIDEBEBOBTINAPAUPRA

1 17:2 3 5 6 7 8 "Tilted Arc" would not have risen up from the ranks of federal employees. It is my understanding that some favor the continued presence of " Tilted Arc" on the simple basis that art has no strict definitions and that to remove the arc would be censorship . These notions are ridiculous . While not agreeing with Oscar Wilde , 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 who said , all art is quite useless , I hope that we are beyond the 1960s idea that virtually anything can be art . Most people and most federal employees might agree with Danial Mason who said that " art of any profoundity can be appreciated only slowly , gradually , in leisurely contemplation . " Having walked past this terrible rusted structure hundreds of times for four ( 4 ) years , most folks with federal business have certainly 18 19 20 had a leisurely chance to consider and contemplate 21 this so called work of art . Most I have spoken to object to the " Tilted 22 2223 Arc . " 24 25 Even if there is an artist left who still resists definition of art , GSA has a different role . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 172 2 As the husband of the tax dollar , GSA must define art whether it is commissioning new work or dry- 3 4 5 6 7 docking the old. There is no shame in admitting a $175,000 mistake . It is a monument to times when anyone with a half- baked idea could get Uncle Sam to meet his price . 8 Obviously I hope the arc is removed 9 and auctioned off if possible . I think there 10 is wide support for this at least from the denizens 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of this building , but the more difficult question is , how to best use the plaza . Because of the controversy surrounding the " Tilted Arc " , I think it is important that the plaza be inclusive rather than exclusive . The plaza should be attracting occupants of our complex and visitors to the area , hence , I believe that replacing " Tilted Arc " with another artistic venture , while not commenting on the GSA's artistic architecture program generally , will only prolong the controversy . After talking with some of my agency's employees , I have concluded that a series of benches perhaps arranged band shell style would NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 173 During every season except winter , the 2 allow maximum use of the plaza by those who are closest to it. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 plaza would draw hundreds at lunch time and provide opportunities for musicians to test their potential . Public ceremonies might be shifted outdoors as they are on the steps of City Hall or at the capitol in Albany . Unlike a controversial permanent structure , the musician with little talent would be obliged to move on . I respectfully suggest that the arc be 12 13 14 15 16 17 tells human beings to keep moving , we can finally removed and replaced with benches so that instead of this strange structure and cold space that 18 192020 have a living plaza where people might want to stay awhile . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Stupp . MR . STUPP : Thank you . 2122 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . 22 23 24 25 Lazzara . (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : I have next on the list I don't know the first name . Mr. Lazzara . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 174 2 MR . LAZZARA : Excuse me . I don't have a prepared speech . My name is Tommy Lazzara and 3 I do work here . 4 I happen to be a collector of art and 5 6 7 I have a house , four ( 4 ) floors of living space , all kinds of art . I must say , Mr. Serra , my position is against the " Tilted Arc" and I say 8 that with all respect and I also say it reluctantly , 9 10 too . I feel very strongly . I feel very strong , Mr. Serra , that what we have there might have 11 12 13 replaced something that was more aesthetically pleasing and by that I mean the open space . 14 I would invite you to come any summer evening and view what I see when I come out ; the 15 16 17 people from nearby Chinatown where space is a luxury and who do utlize , come here and spend 18 their time during the summer . 19 I do believe that you are an artist , you 20225 21 23 24 25 25 have a work of art there , but that " Tilted Arc " would be better placed somewhere else and I would like to recommend that it be removed . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Colonel Griffiss . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

175 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 LT . COLONEL FEIST : I am Lieutenant Colonel Joe Feist , Deputy District Engineer of the New York District Court of Engineers . I am here to read a statement for my boss , Colonel Griffiss . I would like to express my opinion and opinion of the overwhelming majority of the 9 10 core of engineer employees working at 26 Federal Plaza . That the sculpture known as " Tilted 11 12 Arc " should immediately be removed from the plaza of Jacob K. Javits Federal Building . 13 14 15 16 17 As an artist myself , I am particularly offended by those who attempt to justify the preservation of this so called sculpture on the basis of not interfering with or understanding the concept of the artist . Whatever the artist's intentions , I 18 19 find the work to be nothing more than a rusty 20 wall of sheet metal . completely out of harmony 21 22 23 24 25 with the remainder of the plaza and with the building itself. Those of us who work here should not be required to live with such ugliness in the name of an artist's concept . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 C6 1 176 2 Since I assumed command of the New York 3 District in April of 1983 , I have consistently 4 voiced my disapproval of this work . And , have 5 6 made several personal inquiries on the possibility of having it removed . 7 8 I am pleased that GSA is now considering taking such action and I hope that the decision 9 to remove this eyesore will be made promptly . 10 Incidentally , my staff has estimated 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 it will cost approximately $ 60,000 to remove the " Tilted Arc" and to restore the plaza to its previous condition . If funds are made available and if GSA is interested , I will direct my staff to undertake this effort . Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . ( applause ) 18 19 202221 22 23 24 25 MR . DIAMOND : Judge Rao . JUDGE RAO: First let me congratulate GSA in holding hearings on something that I never expected to see on this great plaza where we celebrated the 200th anniversary of bicentennial ceremony of our country on this beautiful plaza . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 177 2 3 4 With your permission and I wish to congratulate you , Commissioner Diamond , director and a friend of the people that work here . For 5 many years the employees at Federal Plaza as well 6 as those in the entire Civic Center area have 7 enjoyed the unhampered beauty of our plaza . That is , until three ( 3) and a half years ago 8 9 when " Tilted Arc " was placed there . 10 No prior notice was given that this 11 12 13 14 15 sculpture would be located on our beautiful plaza , which was designed and supervised by three ( 3 ) of the most important artists , architects and engineers in our nation . If not the world . The plaza was created with a fountain 16 17 and sufficient space to accommodate patriotic and civic activities so that the people could 18 gain some benefit and relaxation . The erection of " Tilted Arc" , however , 19 20 has caused our security to be reduced , if not eliminated and it has prevented the utilization 21 22 23 24 of the original purpose of this plaza . Graffiti is written all over it . Most of which is obscene and unmentionable here and 25 which was to be constantly removed and some of 1 1 178 2 the animals use it as a waste deposit . 3 4 I have had the pleasure of seeing a letter written by a former judge of our Circuit 5 Court of Appeals who occupied chambers here in 6 our court building and I believe that it will be read to you , if it has not already been read . 7 8 I must say I concur emphatically with his 9 10 11 remarks that " Tilted Arc" should be removed from our plaza then the people can obtain the proper benefit for which the plaza was created . To hold concerts and patriotic and civic func- 12 13 tions . 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 22 23 24 25 As a judge of this court , I have been confronted with many cases concerning litigation of whether certain objects imported to our country and in our country should be classified as works of art , which are admitted duty free . Or , to put it in another category . Which would have an import tax imposed on it . If this " Tilted Arc " ever came before our court and I was called upon to write an opinion, I would have to state that it is not a work of art and I would have to reconsider any other way of looking about it as a work NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 179 2 of art . 3 4 I strongly request and I know that I say this because so many of the jurists that 5 6 work here in this locality feel the way I say and it should be removed and give the plaza back 7 8 9 10 1 11 12 13 14 15 to the people to enjoy . ( applause ) JUDGE RAO : Thank you very much . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Mr. Van Bruggen . Miss Ban Bruggen . MR . OLDENBERG : We are appearing together . I am the next person on the list . MR . DIAMOND : Oh , Mr .; MR . OLDENBERG : Claes Oldenberg . (Interposing) My name is 16 MR . DIAMOND : Mr. Oldenberg , right . 17 Of course . 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 We are going to read a statement that MR . OLDENBERG : I am a sculptor and this is my partner , Cosje Van Bruggen, an art historian and writer , who has worked with me on large scale projects starting with the ; in Chicago in 1977 , which was also a GSA commission . 25 we have written .

1 180 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 In our opinion , this hearing and the moves surrounding it violate the contract between Richard Serra and the government by setting up the vigilante-type group without legal status to try and overturn a legal process concluded three ( 3 ) years earlier by an appointed committee of specialists whose decisions were exhaustively reviewed before approval . public law . All in a proper way prescribed by It is well known to everyone that since the work in question is contextual , relocation is impossible and removal amounts to destruction . That this parochial revolution is allowed to influence the procedures of the GSA Art - in- Architecture Program, the program will decay into insignificance . Better artists will no longer trust the government and will avoid the program. Needless to say , contracts are not the only binders in these contracts . The artist depends a great deal on the unwritten good faith and cooperation of the government representatives . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 181 2 3 4 5 MS . VAN BRUGGEN : There are legal ways to oppose an artist's proposal before the contract is concluded . We have several times gone through such a process of rejection , which we have 6 7 had to accept because we had agreed to respect the rules laid down . 8 This one ( 1 ) percent and two ( 2 ) 9 10 11 12 13 percent regulations , a very small amount when compared to the cost of the architecture , exist all over the world to encourage art and culture . Problems exist , too , but no where to 14 15 our knowledge does the government fail to 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 support the works commissioned against local action or quarrel within itself about doing so . In Europe art works commissions by the governments are permanent by law. None of our public sculptures has been free of controversy . In 1977 the ; for Chicago received the annual Golden Fleece award for conspicuous government waste from Senator William Proxmire among other attacks . Despite this , there was no; on the NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7509

182 1 2 part of the government in support of the work . We regard contoversy as positive and 3 4 a necessary part of the GSA Art- in- Architecture 5 Program , which does not seek to maintain a 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 status quo of said art , but to inspire the community with change and new experience . A good sculpture is true and critical and with an edge , uncensored and unregimented . And , it's an example of free expression . Its acceptance by the community is mainly an educational problem one of overcoming established prejudices of beautiful and beautiful and they apply to art . MR . OLDENBERG : If the action to remove the "Tilted Arc" succeeds , art in the GSA program will become compromising in an effort to ward off controversy and please all pressure groups . We shall have mediocrity and decora18 19 20 tion instead of integrity . The program of the 21 22 23 24 25 GSA will become a source of embarrassment rather than the source of pride and the international example that it now is . In a letter to the GSA, Judge Rao one of those urging the removal of " Tilted Arc " NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 183 2 has spoken of wanting to provide " proper identi3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 fication for the court house and to generate respect for its symbol of justice . " We think that as far as symbolism goes , the " Tilted Arc" has more integrity than the allegorical works , academic figures of justice or old cannons or cannonballs used to adorn most court houses . In fact , the problem with the " Tilted Arc" is that it is too honest . Isn't honesty something the government and its courts ought to aspire to? If the " Tilted Arc" is removed , the space it leaves will symbolize the giving in to escapist motives and notions of inoffensive beauty such as Judge Rao sees in what to most other people appears a poorly designed building before a mess of a plaza . The empty space would be the symbol of a broken contract . I doubt if any artist could be found who would offer his work to fill such a space . MS . VAN BRUGGEN : As often happens 21 22 23 24 and especially in commissions by the GSA, which 25 is not known so much for the quality of its NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 184 2 architecture as its art , the sculptor is asked to rescue the situation . 3 Serra's scuplture gives the plaza a 4 strong identity and sweeps the prosaic and unin- 5 6 spired open space into a dramatic conception . 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 Contrary to Judge Rao , and some others , we consider the " Tilted Arc" beautiful . Though it is an unconventional beauty which upsets fixed habits of perception . Even rust has its beauty . Moreover , steel has long been an accepted material for outdoor sculptures because of its capacity to protect itself . One thinks , for example , of Byron Newman's Obelisks ; one of which is located in the garden of the Museum of Modern Art . Judge Rao complains that the " Tilted 14 15 16 17 18 Arc " is difficult to maintain , but this is true 19 20 of all outdoor works which decay in the corrupted atmosphere of big cities and inevitably attract 21 graffiti , pigeons and messages of; MR . OLDENBERG : (Interposing ) We know 22 23 24 everybody . that you cannot make a sculpture that pleases Life in an imperfect city such as New York requires much tolerance of diversity . 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 185 2 There are so many things we prefer not to see , such as certain billboards advertising cigarettes , 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 certain wall paintings of dubious ; and evident ego mania, certain trucks half a block long proclaiming fresh- killed chickens , etc. , etc. , but we would rather put up with the things that bother us than have a sanitized environment censored by someone else's notion of good taste . Neither in this time nor any time in 11 the past can art be defined by everybody . One 12 13 must insist on the uniqueness of the artist's invention and his training . An expertise to 14 15 which he has devoted his whole life . Judge Rao and Mr. Diamond may state 16 17 their opinions about art , but we question their authority on the subject . And , if it must be a contest of petitions , we believe that in this 18 19 20 sophisticated community we can come up with as many willing to risk daily exposure to the sculpture 21 22 23 24 25 as those who will not . But , taking a poll is no way to judge whether a work of art should survive . MS . VAN BRUGGEN : It has been said finally , that the art disrupts the space to such a degree that concerts and performances are no NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 186 2 longer possible on the site . 3 As the sculpture only occupies 30 square feet of floor space , a section of the 5 area , this is clearly not true . In fact , there is 6 an application pending right now for a performance 7 and the arc's division allows the presentation 8 of two ( 2 ) separate concerts simultaneously if 9 so desired . 10 11 12 13 14 15 It is only necessary to plan with the sculpture rather than against it . To involve the " Tilted Arc " in the increased public use contemplated by its opponents . Art is among other things , recreation and the arc is already a performer on the plaza . Because sculptures are relatively small and seemingly less functional , thoughts of removing 16 17 18 19 20 them come easily, but what if plans for increased public use of the plaza were to include the removal of the building instead , which almost everyone 21 2222 23 24 25 agrees is an eyesore of the first magnitude and a considerable more massive obstacle to recreation and performance than the " Tilted Arc . " Even Judge Rao admits that thousands of New Yorkers in the area in his words toil in NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 187 2 3 windowless offices . The Federal Office Building has passed through several city committees . So what ? A member of the bureaucracy sets up a hearing 5 6 to remove it . He succeeds and soon all over 7 town other local committees are formed and follow suit . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 212222 23 24 As a consequence , most of the city is torn down , but each building that is removed is replaced by another, which is in its turn opposed and torn down , so it goes while the wrecking and construction business soars . We leave you with this ; of the removal contemplated inthis hearing while we strongly urge the panel to recommend the preservation of Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc " . MR . OLDENBERG : Thank you . ( applause ) MR. DIAMOND : Joel Kovel . (No Response) MR . DIAMOND : Cerald; are you here? MR . KOVEL : My name is Joel Kovel . I am a writer , professor at the ; and at the 25 New School for Social Research, therefore , I

188 local work force . I cannot comment on the contractual situation between Richard Serra 1 2 do not represent the artistic community or the 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2525 and the government , nor from within the aesthetic tradition , yet I would like to make my own words as strong ; a case I can for the preservation of "Tilted Arc" as a work of art in this space . The general principle here is that we need the defense , an active defense of the space , public space within which art can take place in our society . The value of art cannot ; can never be determined by popularity contests or mediate concerns of taste . Every lesson from the history of art tells us that . History of art tells us that from the Renaissance onward an increasing tension exists between genuine art and the space beginning most clearly with the struggle between Michelangelo and Pope Julius . In the 20th century this tension necessarily grows with the growth of bureaucratic forms of state operation and the mastification of the state into a realm of total administration , NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 } 1 189 2 which tries to deny all oppositions . 3 Serra's work challenges that homoge4 nization of contemporary bureaucracy . It 5 challenges the loss of critical function , which 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 is contained in bureaucracy and retains the critical function which is essential to any genuine art . It represents the space of this plaza as divided instead of homogenized . It stands outside of the homogenization of bureaucracy forcing an active relationship between the passerby and the space of the plaza and necessarily the space of the building behind the plaza . The space is no longer vacant , but 16 occupied , organized . There is an opposition 17 18 in the space of the plaza . This opposition reflects the true oppositions in our society , 19 which bureaucracies work to deny , therefore , it 20 has a critical function . The " Tilted Arc " is , I must admit , 21 22 23 24 subversive and this very hearing proves its subversiveness and hence , its value . The very tilt and the rust both repre25 sents and opposes the building before it . It NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 2 3 4 5 6 reminds us of the temporality of those forms . It reminds us that the gleaming and heartless steel and glass structures of the state apparatus can one day pass away also , therefore , creating an unconscious sense of opposition and hope . 7 This opposition is itself a creative act as , indeed , this hearing is a creative act . 8 9 I would submit that it is the true measure of a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 20200 18 19 21 22 23 24 25 190 free and democratic society that it permits opposition of this sort and , that , therefore , it is essential for this hearing to result in the preservation of Serra's work as a measure of the value of opposition which this society can tolerate . Thank you . ( applause) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Gerald OrDover , please . MR . ORDOVER : Thank you. I was Richard Serra's lawyer and in that capacity negotiated the contract with General Services Administration back in 1979 and I will try to limit my remarks primarily to the discussion of those ; the events , the circumstances of that time . I oppose the removal of the sculpture NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 2 3 from its present site and site the following points : The sculpture was conceived as a perma4 nent work to be permanently attached to this building and a contract was negotiated and 5 6 written with this understanding in mind . 7 8 9 10 11 Richard Serra was selected and the sculpture he submitted was approved through a very rigorous screening process by the GSA's Artin-Architecture Program with prior knowledge and approval at least , or the applied approval of the kind of sculpture he made . The sculpture as he designed it was 12 13 14 15 federal office building . designed specifically for the plaza area of this Every detail of the 16 design , the way it was to be installed and attached 17 to the plaza structure , the issues raised by 18 19 GSA's contracting officer , were all based upon its underlying agreement and understanding that 20 21 22 23 it was to be a permanent installation . Finally , the attempt to remove this sculpture from its present location would cut the heart out of the Art- in-Architecture Program 24 and I think it would probably destroy it . 191 25 There can be no question but that at i 1 192 2 all times in the beginning of this project until 3 its final installation almost two ( 2 ) years later , 4 the government and all of its involved employees 5 and Mr. Serra and his engineer and his contractors 6 7 and I understood that a permanent work of art was to be chosen, built and installed at this 8 9 10 site to become a part of this building throughout its existence . In fact , I would say that 100 years from now were it be decided that this building should be replaced by a larger or a smaller 11 12 13 14 or different structure , little human cry would be heard to save the building , but the sculpture and 15 the present plaza space it spans would be preserved 16 and continued and the new edifice would have to 17 be designed with this sculpture in mind . 18 19100 The contract was made as of September 1979 and about six ( 6 ) months later within the 20 time specified in the contract , Richard submitted 21 his maquette , the model and representing what 22 222 23 24 25 the sculpture was to be like . This was thereafter approved, but at the same ; it was approved in Washington by a design panel . The contracting officer in New York who had to give the official NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSUITE311NEWYORKNY10038

1 193 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 approval , which would then release the first sum of monies so that the steel could be ordered and the sculpture built , would not do so until she was satisfied as to a series of several technical issues and recommendations that the artist had to answer . These dealt with such items as the load that the sculpture would impose upon the 10 11 plaza's support structure , waterproofing of the plaza , avoidance of rust stains from rain and 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2522 335 water hitting up against the sculpture , the impact of the sculpture on the , what they called an existing critical wind tunnel affect . That has been referred to by people talking about how the fountain cannot be used because it's too windy . Concern about graffiti and ball playing against it . I haven't heard anybody speak about playing handball against the sculpture . I guess its tilt precludes that or unless a new game were devised . The screen affect that the sculpture introduced with respect to security and crime control and the need for adequate illumination . The GSA, through its contracting NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 0 1 194 2 officer, was so insistent that these particular items be covered in great detail and at the same 3 4 time an engineer was working on the actual detail5 6 ing of the support elements that would have to go into the ground to support the sculpture , that 7 8 9 it took the better part of 1980 before these matters were satisfactorily concluded . Our engineer met with the GSA's engin10 eers , there were letters and correspondence back and forth . I have a voluminous file because 11 12 I received copies of everything , that testify to 13 the care that the government took in pushing 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 this project forward . Everything was cleared and finally approved and then the work on the sculpture went forward. At the time that he was commissioned to do this ; well , I am going to have to move very much faster . I will skip the references to site- 21 specific . 22 23 24 25 I want to say , this is fairly important if I may have another minute on this . MR . DIAMOND : Your full comments will

1 MR . ORDOVER : Thank you , but I would like to say ; with respect to Article 6 in ownership . The only reference in the contract that talked 2 be in the record . 3 4 5 6 7 8 about disposition of the work in any way other than its installation I submit and I detail this in my submission that by its terms , this part9 icular article only dealt with the handling of 10 11 the sculpture and the maquette and such during the time that the contract was going on and that 12 13 14 is what ; as the sculpture was being planned , fabricated and installed . It talked about the contracting 15 officer's power to do certain things . His role 16 17 would end when the sculpture went into the ground and everything was paid for and completed , and , so 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 195 this does not give any authority to the government at this time in my opinion to transfer the sculpture to the Smithsonian Institution or anyone else . Don Falager , the head of the program, with whom I negotiated , told me at the time and explaining this paragraph that the National Collection of Fine Arts at the Smithsonian was compiling a collection of maquettes , drawings NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 196 2 and sketches in effect documenting and detailing 3 4 this entire program of Art - in- Architecture and that was why they had this provision in . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 The other part of the provision dealt with the artist's right to display the sculpture elsewhere . Well , he couldn't very well display it elsewhere once it was installed , so I submit that this Article 6 lost its effectiveness , had no further purpose in this entire project once. the piece was completed and paid for . The ; MR . DIAMOND : 12 13 ( Interposing ) All right . 14 MR . ORDOVER : Fine . I will ; MR . DIAMOND : ( Interposing ) Yeah . Thank 15 16 you very much . MR . ORDOVER : Thank you. 17 18 19 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Mrs. Danheiser , please . 20 21 2222 MRS . DANHEISER : My name is Elaine Danheiser and I have been a collector of contemporary art for many years . I am on the Board of Trustees 23 at the Guggenheim Museum and the new museum. 24 25 2 335 We are also building up a collection of merchant artists on Dwayne Street where the collection NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 197 2 will be housed . 3 President Reagan observed the federal government is the nation's single largest builder , 5 printer and user of designed services . What we 6 7 build, print or cause to be manufactured for federal use directly affects every citizen. 8 9 In describing the Art- in- Architecture Program the award in part states artists have been given aesthetic freedom and support even 10 when their works have been controversial , but 11 when new works have sometimes met with puzzlement 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or hostility they have usually come to be increasingly appreciated bythe using public . Its citation reads , the program is also to be commended for its intelligent willingness to sustain potential risks in the selection of artists through the solicitation of nominations from peer groups appointed by the National Endowment for the Arts . Installations may have been judged by the press , critics and others to be different to comprehend or less than completely successful are to be expected in such a courageous program and should be interpreted as an index of its NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

198 1 continuing vitality . 2 3 4 This is a courageous program, which has supported many stimulating and often controversial 5 works of art in federal facilities across the 6 nation . 7 8 9 10 Indeed, the jury found several architectural submissions in which the art works incorporated work more interesting and of a higher quality than the building . 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 19 20 21 222 23 24 25 By supporting regional as well as nationally known artists , the program has helped to encourage and recognize local talent while giving people an opportunity to experience outstanding works of art in their daily lives . MR . DIAMOND : (applause) Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Peter Hirsch . MR . HIRSCH : My name is Peter Hirsch . I am the Research Director and Legal Counsel for the Association of Immigration Attorneys . We are a group of private attorneys and as such we are constantly at 26 Federal Plaza because that is where the Immigration Service is located . My membership has authorized me to NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK NY 10038

1 199 2 say that we are entirely opposed to the " Tilted 3 Arc . " We feel that , this is my own personal 5 6 7 8 9 10 view, that a good place to put the " Tilted Arc " would be in the Hudson River . This is not a facetious comment . The Westway is about to be built . I am told that they are going to have to place artificial things in the river so that we can now have shelter for the stripped bass . I think the " Tilted Arc " would make such a very fine shelter . 11 Now, this might sound a little face- 12 13 tious and it is , however , there is something more profound at stake here than an object on a 14 15 plaza that the overwhelming number of people 16 are exposed to that object do not want . And , 17 what really is at stake is a question of demo18 cracy . 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We have heard artists come here ; artists mind you , speaking in terms of contracts , programs created by bureaucrats and here I am an attorney saying maybe what we are talking about is democracy . We have lists here in this building of people who do and do not want that piece of NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

200 Overwhelmingly , they do not want it . Now, Mr. Rockefeller , whichever Rockefeller we are talking about , and they are great patrons of the art , they buy the art that they 1 2 sculpture . 3 4 5 6 7 8 to like it . 9 10 at the time . like . They do not buy art simply because it's modern or because somebody has told them if you look at it for 10 years you will then start They buy it because they like it 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The public has not being given that choice . The public is saying we don't like it and we are not stupid and we are not Philistines and we don't need some art historians and some curators to tell us that we will like it . We don't like it . Now, the Village Voice points out that that piece of rusting metal is symbolic in a way of what goes on in that building and I agree , it is symbolic , but not in a healthy way . There is right now pending a lawsuit against the General Services Administration , an extraordinary lawsuit by my association to allow the public to go to the bathroom on the 13th floors occupied by the Immigration Service . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 201 2 The Immigration Service has contempt 3 for democracy , it is in 26 Federal Plaza . This 4 piece of art has contempt for democracy . It 5 6 7 8 9 fronts on the Federal Plaza . bathroom. Democracy says we want to go to the Democracy says we are not fools , we are not stupid , we don't like that piece of art . I say in a democracy why not let 10 democracy rule . MR . DIAMOND : 11 Thank you , Mr. Hirsch . 12 13 comments . 14 side . 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Please , no negative No negative comments , please , on either Joseph Monticello or representative . MR . FREEMAN : My name is Charles Freeman . I am special assistant to the Regional Administrator of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and I am here representing our agency head, Joseph D. Monticello , the Regional Administrator , and I have with me a statement that he has prepared in the form of a letter for you , Administrator Diamond , which I would like to read as our presentation today . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 3:2/964-7589

202 1 2 3 Dear Mr. Diamond , in any discussion relative to an original work of art one must weigh the artistic merits in relation to the total environment that makes up the backdrop for the "Tilted Arc" sculpture . 4 5 6 7 What follows is a design in environ8 mental statement without commenting on the 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 necessarily subject evaluation of the arc from a creative point of view. Among the many designs standards that our agency is charged with administering , one is the provision for outdoor activity on the site . In addition , that they be planned with consideration for relationship between all aspects of the existing site and that planning attention should come early in the development stage . The installation of the arc was obviously an afterthought and was not part of the planning or design process for the plaza as a whole . The result has been , and is , unfortunate . The aforementioned standards also require that the re - arrangement of facilities 25 on the site be orderly and located to harmonize

1 203 2 with the design , size and shape of the site . The three- dimensional aspects of all 3 site elements must also be considered and organ- 4 ized as part of the total design and that spaces 5 6 should be arranged and shaped to unify the develop7 ment . The "Tilted Arc " demonstrates none of 8 9 10 the above . It is too large and cut across the plaza severing it in two and destroying the unity 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 and harmony of the space . It obliterates the fountain , one the original primary design elements of the space , and visually obscures the entrance to the building the plaza serves . It also conflicts with and makes meaningless the original paving design of the plaza . It precludes the plaza from being used as a gathering place and 18 restricts pedestrian flow to and from the building . 19 20 This violates the intent to create a usable plaza and , in fact , the original name of 21 this building was derived from the plaza , which 22 no longer functions as one . 23 When HUD is concerning design standards 24 25 with respect to security , also , we are also charged with assuring that public areas be well NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 204 2 3 lit and free of obstacles in order to discourage nuisance or criminal activity , and to encourage 4 defensible space allowing 24 hour surveillance 5 by local authorities from the street level . The location of this arc is in conflict 6 7 with these criteria . It encourages nuisance 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 191 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 2 2 2 behavior by graffiti artists , creating a constant maintenance problem and provides a place for criminals to hide and as an obstacle preventing and hindering local police surveillance . In summation , the location of the arc is inappropriate and the resulting use of the plaza space in this manner is contrary to the very standards that our agency is pledged to administer . We thank you for this opportunity to present our views and in addition , one of the petitions that has been circulated , will be submitted to you as an annex to this letter . MR . DIAMOND: Thank you , Mr. Freeman . Thank you . ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Katherin Freed . Goldstein . MR . GOLDSTEIN : My name is Paul I am speaking for Katherin Freed and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 205 2 on behalf of Community Board Number One . 3 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 Community Board Number One represents the area including this civic center area and most of Manhattan south of Canal Street including the financial district , the Battery Park city area and Tribeca . The Community Board discussed this item and voted at our February 13th meeting by a vote of 22 in favor , zero opposed and two ( 2 ) abstentions to recommend the removal of " Tilted Arc" from 26 Federal Plaza and its relocation to a more suitable site . In reaching this decision , our board 14 15 16 felt that unfortunately , this piece of art obstructs most of the open space at Federal 17 -Plaza and both dissuades and denies the public 18 most uses that the public plaza could be used for . 19 Our board is most concerned that we 20 21 22 23 24 25 do whatever is possible to increase and make more attractive the very limited amount of open public space available in lower Manhattan . This district , without question , contains a critically small amount of open space NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 206 to serve the hundreds of thousands of workers 2 who spend a large portion of their waking hours 3 here . 4 5 In fact , of our total inventory of open space and recreation areas in this district , 6 only Battery Park , City Hall Park , Washington 7 Market Park and the World Trade Center Plaza 8 9 10 rank as larger open spaces than does this Federal Plaza sitting area . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 This potentially wonderful area which could easily be brought to life with more trees and benches a working fountain and lunch time entertainment has instead been turned into a virtual no- man's land and unless recognized that Mr. Serra's sculpture has regrettably contributed to the public's rejection of this space . Many people are even bewildered when is not a piece of left over construction material , 18 19 they are told that this large metal structure 20 21 2222 23 24 25 but , is , in fact , a piece of art . Its overwhelming size prevents the freeflowing circulation that the plaza was built to enhance and in the minds of many the piece constitutes both a safety and fire hazard . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

207 1 2 The community board does not view this 3 hearing as an effort to stifle or suppress an 4 artist's right to self-expression . Our board 5 6 7 8 would be pleased to have another smaller and less obstructive sculpture on display in the plaza . Certainly , anyone who knows of the community board recognizes that our board has consistently supported 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the installation of public art throughout this district including other pieces by Mr. Serra . But , it is also important to balance the needs of the community and here in lower Manhattan we cannot simply turn our backs on our pressing need for additional , useful open space . The GSA committee , which initially approved this sculpture , apparently failed to comprehend the magnitude of this need and at no time consulted with the community to get our input . If they did , I am sure we would have urged them to find another more appropriate sculpture for that plaza . Clearly, we can all recognize that planning mistakes and errors in judgement are made quite routinely and even more often when NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

208 1 2 government bodies are concerned . 3 4 5 6 7 8 Are we supposed to simply sit back and accept an unacceptable condition merely because a piece of art is involved and stands to be removed? We feel that the people who live and work in this community and wish to utilize this 9 10 plaza deserve to be heard and to have thier needs and opinions respected . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Once again , we urge the federal government to remove the existing sculpture , install additional trees , benches and a smaller sculpture , renovate the operate the fountain and schedule a series of lunch time concerts and special events in the public plaza so that it will again become an attractive and useful public space for the workers and residents of this community . 19 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you very much , 20 Mr. Goldstein . 21 22 23 (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : All right , we would like to take a 10 minute break . We will be back in 10 minutes . Off the record. 24 (Off the record) 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 209 2 3 4 (Whereupon , a brief recess was taken . ) MR . DIAMOND : On the record . We will , in the interest of time , we 5 will proceed and as we said earlier , every state6 ment is being transcribed , is being recorded 7 and will be transcribed , so even if a panelist 8 9 does miss a few minutes that will be made available to them. 10 11 12 13 14 15 I have ; we have as the next speaker Frank Gehry . Do I have that? MR . HOFFMAN : My name is Fred Hoffman . I would like to read a statement for Los Angeles architect , Frank Gehry . The Federal Plaza building and space 16 before the Richard Serra piece was installed 17 was , in my opinion , a foremost mediocrity . believe Richard Serra to be one of the most I 18 19 20 important sculptors alive in the world today . I look to him constantly for inspiration . 21 2222 23 24 25 For his public work vibrates and resonates with information , excitement , and challenge . I believe his work contributes as much to our lives as the most important achievements in literature , law and science . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 210 2 I believe " Tilted Arc" is a serious 3 4 and important work of art . The selection and process that lead to the placement of "Tilted 5 6 7 8 Arc" in this space was legal , democratic and sensibly devised . The governmental arts program, which resulted in " Tilted Arc , " has been praised 9 10 recently for its risk taking and level of achievement by the President of the United 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 States . To illegally undue this process and this particular achievement questions and undermines the total art program developed , encouraged and sustained by the federal government . This very hearing and its implications could be misconstrued to parallel distasteful inquisitions in the world's history and in my opinion puts the whole federal arts program in jeopardy . A program whose gains were hard won and which have enriched the lives of many . These proceedings are being watched by the entire art world and the decisions made relevant to the final disposition of "Tilted Arc" will have world wide implications . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

211 1 It is shocking to me that New York considers itself and has been perceived as , a leader of world culture , should be considering so catastrophic a step as the final 2 3 City , which 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 removal of this sculpture . I urge you to keep "Tilted Arc" in the federal plaza and learn from it and allow successive generations to learn from it . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Hoffman . MR. HOFFMAN : Thank you . 12 13 14 15 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Ms. Jenny Dixon . MS . DIXON : As a citizen of New York City and a citizen of the community of New York 16 17 I would like to say that I am very proud that my money has been spent on " Tilted Arc . " I think 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it's a very important work and a very important statement as a part of our culture . Now, I would like to read a prepared statement , which represents the views of the Public Art Fund , its board of directors and its 20 member advisory board . It was prepared by all those parties . The Public Art Fund has been involved NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

212 1 2 with the installation of works of art throughout 3 4 New York City for the past 12 years . We are also resonsible for administering New York City's 5 6 7 8 Percent for Art Program under the auspices of the Department of Cultural Affairs . We believe that inspite of the public controversy surrounding Richard Serra's " Tilted 9 Arc, " and the unforunate lack of community 10 input in the commission process , the piece 11 should remain at 26 Federal Plaza . We also think that the utmost care 12 13 14 should be taken to preserve the General Services Administration's integrity as a patron and to 15 16 respect the integrity of Richard Serra and his stated intentions as it relates to " Tilted Arc . " 17 18 The GSA's Art- in- Architecture Program had made an immeasurable contribution to our cultural life . Both as an initiator of commiss- 19 20 ions and as an innovator in seeking the service of this country's finest artist . It has done 21 22 23 24 25 GSA tradition . a superb job . The commissioning of Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc" was entirely consistent with the The selection process followed NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 213 2 the established practices of relying on a jury 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 : 11 of respected and recognized arts professionals recruited from the museum and academic worlds . The final approval is made by the chief administrator of the GSA who took into consideration the complex communal , environmental problems large scale abstract sculpture might pose . The panelist and GSA staff were aware of Mr. Serra's work and how " Tilted Arc " would affect the plaza site . 12 Mr. Serra satisfied all the aesthetic 13 14 15 Board one was not consulted when a work of art and environmental concerns which were raised . It is regrettable that community 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for Federal Plaza was first being considered . Perhaps the attitude of its members would be different today if it had been involved in the beginning . I think from the testimony of so many people today , that the people here from the community , I hope they are listening , because I' feel that I am learning more about a work that I have already accepted . Fortunately , the community voice is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 214 2 now being sought by the GSA in the selection 3 of works or new projects . 5 6 7 8 9 10 We would also encourage you to have GSA proposals for art works which are to be located in the city , reviewed by the New York City Art Commission , whom you know who they are , as they spoke . We were pleased to learn from Mr. Thalagher that community outreach and consulta11 12 13 tion is now a strong component of the GSA's program. We think that it should be further developed in a matter which will consider the 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 public's point of view, but not conflict with the artistic standards and freedom of expression the the GSA has encouraged . The Public Art Fund strongly seeks support , seeking a community voice , the expression of opinion and public participation in the early stages of the public art process . In fact , we now make a concerted effort to do so , but not after the fact . As the GSA can attest , the community has often reacted adversely to art that they have later come to admire . Many of these examples NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

215 1 have already been cited today . Claes Oldenberg's 2 3 sculpture for Chicago ; George Sugarman's sculpture belrace 4 5 Vers for Maryland and the Alexander sculpture , La Grand Beutes ( phonetic ) for Grand Rapids , Michigan . 6 Today we are not talking about a proposed piece , but a piece of work which is in place . 7 8 Since Mr. Serra has met all the aesthetic , envir9 10 11 12 onmental and contractual obligations that the GSA has required of him, it is unreasonable to subject him to this public hearing now. The Public Art Fund feels that it is inappropriate for the GSA to repudiate its original commitment to Richard Serra . 13 14 15 Let me just finish . Now, and to seek 16 the removal of a site - specific piece . 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The consequences of such an act could be disastrous and erode the cultural tradition that your agency has so carefully , reasonably and imaginatively set in motion . The standards you have set and the high quality of works that you have commissioned are only now being emulated by other federal and state programs . The prominence and residence of your

1 216 2 3 program are international as well as national . Artists are proud to be a part of such an impor4 tant program and accordingly , many of our 5 country's finest artist , the very names that helped 6 make New York City a great and prospering art 7 mecca have entered into contracts with the GSA 8 9 10 11 12 13 knowing that they are government sponsored if confronted by criticism or lack of understanding may not stand up for their work and that the work would subsequently be removed will undoubtedly cause many artists to question working with the GSA in the future . 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 223 24 25 The GSA must adopt a unform procedure to provide for the rarest of circumstances where the removal of work is found to be necessary . Furthermore , such procedure and the quidelines which impliment it should state criteria and outline reasons for possible removal . This process must be soberly and carefully developed . Before any process for removal is initiated the artist , if alive , should be consulted regarding the relocation of the art work as the first step . The removal of " Tilted Arc" in the face NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 217 2 of controversy belies the very attitude of the 3 Art - in-Architecture Program celebrated by the 4 5 recent president's award for design excellence , which states artists have been given aesthetic 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 freedom and support even when their works have been controversial . In granting this important award to the Art- in- Architecture Program the citation noted the very fact that some of the program's commissioned works stimulates controversy and even outrage is a mark of its vitality and its success . Instead of being intimidated or embarrassed by the controversy , this region should be proud the work stimulates notice and response . for allowing us this opportunity to Thank you express our point of view and I am reading this on behalf of myself and the president of our Board . 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to speak . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : If there is a Robert Buck in the audience would you please call your office ? MR . BUCK : Call my office? I had planned NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 218 2 MR. DIAMOND : You can do both . You 3 had better call your office first and I believe 4 you are on the list further down , yeah . We will 5 6 7 8 hold your place . Okay , Harriet Senie . MS . SENIE : I am Harriet Senie . I am the associate director of the Art Museum at 9 Princeton University . I have a PhD in art history 10 and I have written a dissertation on recent 11 developments in urban sculpture by that I mean 12 13 14 15 16 17 sculpture in urban public spaces , such as the one we are discussing today . I have written several articles on the subject including an article on the work of Richard Serra and I was for a number of years the art critic of the New York Post . And , I would like to say that I think 18 19 what we are seeing today is really no so much 20 the discussion of a " failure of a sculpture" , 21 but rather the failure of the GSA to have fulfilled 22 23 24 25 their public responsibility to establish an adequate and educational program to accompany their most honorable program for including art in architecture . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK NY 10038 212/964.7500

1 219 2 3 4 I think this is an; attempt to destroy sculpture for the failure of this important aspect . Moving a site - specific sculpture is like changing 5 the color of a painting . It is no less radical 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 than that . I think it's very clear from what we see here today that we ; an educational program for several speakers have already mentioned it , but I think it is significant enough to make it the focus of my brief remarks . Ted Weiss suggested it , so did Irving Sandler and Suzanne Delehanty . This educational process must involve community representatives . They should be involved from the beginning . They should have a way of participating in the decision making process . I think these community representatives must include representatives from the regional administration , residents of buildings and residents of the vicinity of the community in which the sculpture should be placed . I think the mandate here is to initiate such a public education program as soon as possible . 23 This education program , I believe should be put 24 25 into effect well before construction on the specific NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sculpture begins . It should exist periodically in the kind of open forum that we are experiencing here today . It should include artists , or their representatives , it should include at least one ( 1 ) of the professionals involved in the selection committee and those community representatives who are most involved and most concerned about the issue . The community needs the opportunity for open discussion . I have taught art history for some 10 years , particularly modern and contemporary art and I can certainly attest from my experience of the necessity and the value of such education for everybody . Museum exhibitions have extensive wall labels , sometimes too extensive , and certainly exhibitions catalogs . Why shouldn't a sculpture in the public domain have accompanying it the same kinds of very useful and helpful educational materials? A brief word about the aesthetic value of the sculpture . There is one aspect of it I believe we haven't mentioned and it is one that NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 221 2 3 I particularly came to appreciate when I was a jurer in criminal court over on Centre Street and 4 that is the affect of the sculpture as it is 5 seen from above . Seen from above , the sculpture creates 6 7 a very graceful and beautiful line . This is 8 9 10 11 an experience of the sculpture that is available to all the surrounding residents , to members of their office buildings here as well as people who work in the surrounding government buildings . I trust that it is not too late to 12 13 address this issue of education . After so many 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 222 23 2 335 24 25 things have been said at this hearing I feel the needs go really far beyond the issue of this sculpture . They really refer to the place of art education in this culture as a whole , but to remove the sculpture as a result of the failure of the Ar- in-Architecture Program to provide a proper educational program, seems to me a travesty . An inversion of the democratic process and , in fact , a punishment of the victims and in this instance I see the victim not as the sculptor , although, he certainly has suffered because of this , or the art community , but the inhabitants NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 1 1 222 2 of the building and the larger community who have 3 not been given the proper opportunity or material with which to live with this sculpture and learn to appreciate it . Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. ( applause) 5 6 7 8 9 stein . 10 MR . DIAMOND : Elyse Grinstein . MS . GRINSTEIN : My name is Elyse GrinI live and work in Los Angeles and came here yesterday especially for this hearing . 11 I also maintain a residence in lower Manhattan . 12 13 I am an architect and a principle in my own firm . 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 My work has been published in several professional journals and many popular ones . I am the chair of the board of directors of the Los Angeles Institute of Contemporary Art . My husband and I have been collecting art for over 40 years and have been active members of the art community during that time . My husband sits on the board of trustees of the Los Angeles Country Museum of 22 Art . 23 24 25 The controversy between site - specific sculpture and architecture are certainly not anything new. A case in point is the famous NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK NY 10038

1 223 2 Piazza Milona ( phonetic ) in Rome . The Piazza 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 is universally considered to be one of the great urban design achievements of western culture . That unifies sculpture , architecture and urban public space . The architect , felt the placement of the fountain by the sculpture Bernini , caused an aggressively confrontational relationship between his church and the arts . This resulted in a most spirited debate of its time not unlike the situation we face here today . The Piazza's beauty lies in the relationship between the two ( 2 ) works . The dialogue between them and the energized space that results from the architecture surrounding the sculpture in the middle . Would it not be ridiculous in the 18 19 20 extreme to think that the reconstruction of 21 22 23 Bernini's fountain in some other place in order to open the plaza and litigate the argument . Our historical hindsight perceives 24 25 its beauty , but what if the committee of the day had capitulated to the wishes of the public ? NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 224 2 One of the outstanding features of 3 4 New York is the art that abounds in all parts of this city and its cultural image that attracts 5 6 7 8 9 10 one of those destinations . 11 12 13 tourists from all over the world . These sites have become destination points for informed and sophisticated visitors and are responsible for part of the fabric that makes it one of the great cities of the world . The Federal Plaza has , for the first time , become A formerly bleak and inhumanly scaled building and plaza has been turned into a setting for a major work by one 14 of the Bernini's of our time . 15 One of the roles of the " Tilted Arc " is that of the mediator between the monolith of 16 17 the building and the scale of the people passing 18 19 through . This has been accomplished in a most 20 satisfactory , spectacular way . The arc by its 21 curve has also formed a place that implies enclosure 22 and shelter and can form a perfect backdrop 23 24 for any outdoor activity that would be scheduled there and with a step facing it , a natural amphitheatre . 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 18 19 20 20 21 22 23 24 25 When architects speak of a building having integrity , special qualities are implied . Some these are suitability of the building for its we for the climate in which it was built , for the context of which it stands , the use of blendin materials and the type of construction . A reture with integrity is often spoken of as an honest building and that is high praise . We all acknowledge the meaning of interity in a person and expect that quality inctors , lawyers , accountants , teachers , artsand legislators . The method used in choosing Serra for that of a jury of experts , three ( 3 ) iod of joint effort with the professionals artist , was a good and honest one . And , he integrity as the system was intact . Richard Serra was given a contract by Enment committee that indicated that would they erect his work , but also would be a permanent installation . This is to ensure the citizens that would look out for their interests and at the work was of lasted value . 12 13 14 15 16 17 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE $ BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 225 212/964-7589

1 226 2 Are we to assume from this hearing 3 4 5 6 that from now on anyone who carries a placard and marches in front of a piece of art that he doesn't like or understand can cause this piece of art or building or a park or any other public7 ally held property to be destroyed? The implication of this action could 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 have devastating affects on all parts of our society and carried to its extreme could result in a burning of the books . I would hope that this body would address itself to the responsibility implied in the actions taken by the GSA by signing the contract . History has shown us that governments 16 17 and officials come and go . Remains and becomes 18 19 20 2122 23 24 25 a cultural heritage of our children . Do not allow the destruction of this cultural heritage . MR . DIAMOND : ( applause ) Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Joyce Schwartz , please . MS . KELLY : My name is Irene Kelly and I will be speaking on behalf of Joyce Schwartz , founder and president of Works of Art for Public NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 227 2 3 5 Spaces . The consultation firm specializing in public art . She was formerly director of communications at the Pace Gallery where she worked closely on many public projects . 6 For 12 years I have been professionally involved with works of art created specifically 7 8 for architectural and landscape spaces . Before 9 10 discussing any of the issues at today's hearing , I want to say that when I first heard that Richard 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Serra was selected by the GSA fine arts program to create a sculpture for Federal Plaza I was delighted . New York City , the acknowledged center of the art world , has less major contemporary public art works than most other large cities in this country . Chicago , Philadelphia , Houston , Miami , San Francisco , Seattle , even Anchorage , Alaska can claim more examples of significant works of public art . Serra's " Tilted Arc" has not disappointed me . I love it . But , very few large scale public sculpture , Serra's " Tilted Arc " has qualities associated with great monuments of the past . In time it will speak to this building , the community NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 228 2 3 4 and the city . But ; today , approves its power by solidifying the society it addresses , the people working within a building , the judges , 5 6 7 the New York art community and all the assembled interested citizens . One of the characteristics ; that the 8 Serra sculpture possesses , is above all grand , 9 vast , immense of immeasurable moment . It's 10 aim, ambitious . It's affects like a laser , intense 11 and consuming to quote William H. Gast , writing 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in opposition to the Journal of Architecture . Here in America our land , prairie's , deserts , mountains are monumental . Our skyscrapers are monumental . Serra has dared to create a monumental thing in the heart of a plaza a reminder of monumental aspirations . Would a thing of smaller proportions abstract or figurative consequently losing itself in this open paved field create this monumental controversy? Pre -discusses the mediocre and banal sculptures of Sixth Avenue in midtown? This Serra monument beauty in photographs is unique and special . If we do not see it now NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 229 2 we will see it later when other visual ideas 3 that are in our immediate consciousness subside 4 5 and we begin to feel a presence of this work . It is not merely as many have said , 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 a hostile affront , but a grand , elegant sculptural gesture , an important statement of contemporary art not; derivative of anyone . It is itself . That alone demands respect and indicates that it is worth getting to know better . The sculpture's scale and moving form transforms what is essentially a desolate , open space without any distinguishing characteristics 13 14 into an exciting , perceptual encounter . Serra's " Tilted Arc" moves across the 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 plaza with dignity , giving viewers from the surrounding tall buildings an aesthetic visual experience as they look down . This is one of Serra's major works in a highly visible New York site available not only to city people , but to visitors from all over the world who come to New York expecting to see our major artists ' public works on every corner . " Tilted Arc" will eventually take its Dubife place with; Dubafay's (phonetic) Four Trees ; NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 31 1 230 2 3 4 Nevelson's plaza and Prometheus at Rockefeller Center as one of New York's major monuments not to be missed. In time I predict that even 5 the most concerned people working in this plaza 6 will look on the sculpture with pride . 7 It is not an art object to be ignored 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 as this controversy attests . I believe that the respected professional community that spent thoughtful time and effort doing the systemized selection process did their job well . The history of our greatest public art from Michelangelo's David to the Eiffel Tower and Colder's Grand Rapids sculpture , excited initial negative controversy . In the long run · one of the fringe benefits of difficult public art may be that it forces all of us to question Our visual environment and appreciate aesthetics as a valuable function of art . 21 My own rationale for working in public 22 23 art rather than the more ; museum or gallery situation is that public art at its best gives 24 25 any passerby access to art created large scale , reflecting the unique vision of an artist . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 1 1 231 2 3 4 Unlike even museum works , the arena of public art is very much its own allowing the 5 artist to create specific art that would otherwise not be produced and we have given this art to 6 7 8 the public . Since the Serra sculpture is sitespecific , moving it from the plaza would effectively 9 10 destroy its aesthetic integrity . Store King of wherever it may go , will have a non art work . 11 The GSA selection process has become the model for growing numbers of civic and corporate percent 12 13 for art programs in cities , towns and counties . 14 15 16 17 It has provided a systematic procedure that may not be perfect , but its professionalism has a ; to be unpoliticized to a degree not felt possible . Allowing this process to become undone will act to effectively destroy public art . The quality of public art is only as good as the selection ; as the process of selection and imple18 19 20 21 22 23 not go backwards . 24 25 2 335 mentation . Until a better way comes along , we should If a majority , minority, any individual group can countermand a professional decision legally arrived at , a precedent will be NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 232 2 established that this art selection procedure is 3 undefined and useless . This is a blur not only 4 5 against the creative spirit , but also to the laws we hold dear . 6 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. 7 8 9 10 ( applause ) MR. DIAMOND : David Rabinowitz . MR . RABINOWITZ : I am an artist in New York City . An artist makes a legal agreement 11 with the government and this government then 12 decides to break its commitment . In the case 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 335 24 25 before us , what this amounts to is nothing less than the destruction of a work . My first question , therefore , is by what right can one party unilaterally destroy a piece of art? Any legitimate answer in my opinion must be seen in terms of the constitution . Specifically, the first amendment to it , which assures the freedom of expression . This contemplated act very plainly violates the artist's constitutional protection . A second question remains one which bears both on aesthetics and morals . What may be the affect of a precedent established by the 22 23 } NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 233 2 destruction of this piece? I think it must be 3 conceived that such an action removes any restraint 4 5 on arbitrary judgement found upon taste , political motive or some other species of prejudice . This ultimately means that under such 6 a precedent aims in the arts will be at risk 7 8 of being defined entirely within the context 9 10 of provincial ends . Future generations may thus be deprived of a most serious and ambitious work . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2122 22 22 23124 To sum up . If this sculpture is removed and thus destroyed , an outrage will have been perpetrated , which I believe must lead to areat mischief in regard to cultural life and individual rights . Thank you very much . MR . DIAMOND : ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . Thank you , Mr. Rabinowitz . Now, we have Malcolm Graff . MR . GRAFF : My name is Malcolm Graff . I am a professional engineer with an office in New York City . I have been a consultant to Richard Serra for over 10 years and have worked with him on sculpture projects throughout the 24 25 world . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7880

234 1 2 In the past 10 years I have come to know and understand Richard and his work . I have 3 4 5 been involved on the " Tilted Arc" sculpture since Richard Serra was selected as the artist for 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Federal Plaza in late 1979. As such , I felt it was important to set things in perspective today . As I have first -hand knowledge as to the selection process used in choosing Richard as the artist and " Tilted Arc" as the permanent work of the art for Federal Plaza . I was also directly involved in the scrupulous review and modering ( phonetic) process that was carried on by the Region 2 GSA professional staff during the technical design and installation of the piece until its final acceptance by GSA in December of 1981 . Submitted with the written copy of this statement will be copies of correspondence between GSA and myself concerning this project . This correspondence documents the following key points : First , the selection of Richard Serra as the artist for Federal Plaza under the 22 23 24 25 careful and prolonged review process . Federal Art - in- Architecture Program was done after The New NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589 CC 1. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 York City Region 2 office was involved at the beginning with a meeting in New York with the Region's technical staff in February of 1980 . Second, the final approval of the " Titled Arc " sculpture was made by Mike Marshall , Commissioner of the Public Building Service of the General Services Administration at a meeting I attended in Washington , D.C. in March 1980 . The proval was given after a detailed presentatie indicating the artistic concept of the piseand included photographs of the model of the sipture located on the plaza showing clearly would appear in relation to the plaza 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 surrounding buildings . Region 2 had setative at that meeting who gave input eral concerns the local region had about pture . Third, Region 2 GSA in a letter of March smitted seven (7) items of concern to be addressed and resolved before was to begin on the sculpture . The both technical and practical . It a lengthy process whereby every concern assed and resolved to the satisfaction NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEENMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 235 212/964-7509

236 1 2 of the Region 2 GSA staff . 3 4 5 6 7 8 Fourth , the installation of the sculpture required major alteration of the structure of the building in order that the scuplture could withstand the severest conditions that might be imposed upon it as a permanently installed work of art . The sculpture itself was permanently anchored to the structure of the plaza to this 9 10 end . 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Fifth , in June of 1981 the project was finally approved for installation and a detailed installation schedule submitted to the GSA that month , the extent of the work involved clearly shows that all parties clearly intended this sculpture to be a permanent part of the plaza . For this reason , instructions for the permanent maintenance of the sculpture was submitted to GSA in September of 1981 . completed . Sixth , in December of 1981 the work was It was inspected and approved by GSA that month and final photographs were delivered. The contractual obligations of Richard Serra have been satisfactorily completed . And , that brings us to this public hearNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7509

1 237 2 ing of March 1985. Over three ( 3) years after 3 the completion of the project . 4 5 As I have documented above , Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc" sculpture was intended 6 and installed as a permenant piece of art under 7 the Art- in- Architecture Program. 8 Every step along the way was given 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 intensive review from the head of the Public Building Service in Washington down to the head of maintenance at the Federal Plaza . All parties involved had adequate opportunity to have their concerned heard . Richard Serra satisfactorily answered all concerns of GSA to the complete satisfaction . "Tilted Arc " was created by Richard Serra for this site and this site only . The issues raised here today were addressed and resolved during the review process The public hearing should have been held in 1979 at the beginning of the sele18 19 20 I have outlined . 21 22 23 24 25 ction process for this project . Richard Serra has faithfully carried out his obligations under this contract with the federal government . The federal government NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 238 2 3 4 must now faithfully honor its contract with Richard Serra . Thank you. MR. DIAMOND : ( applause ) Thank you . 5 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Graff . 6 Robert Buck . 7 (No Response ) 8 MR . DIAMOND : Do we have Mr. Buck? 9 10 He was here before . 11 MALE VOICE : He had a call . He had a death in his family . 12 13 14 15 MR . DIAMOND : Oh , my. Okay . Well , he can either reschedule or submit ; someone can read a statement for him. 16 MALE VOICE : He didn't have a 17 18 19 written statement . Perhaps we can get a report together . MR . DIAMOND : Fine . It can be read by 20 anyone you wish . 2122 Courtney Ross . 22 23 MS . ROSS : My name is Courtney Ross . And, I was selected by Governor Carey to direct 24 the bicentennial exhibition , New York , the State of Art , it is as a maker of documentary films 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

239 1 2 about artists that I would like to speak . 3 In making films about the work and 4 careers as such distinguished American artists 5 6 7 8 as Jacksony, Pollack , Arshal, Gorkey and ; part of my purpose was to make their creative achievements accessible to a broader audience than just those who frequent museums or galleries . 9 10 In exactly the same sense , the federal government's deservedly admired Art - in11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Architecture Program of the General Services Administration also performs the task of bringing art of all kinds to a broader audience . It does so in a way which makes important works of art a part of people's daily lives . Every individual who has occasion to cross the Federal Plaza engaged in someway with Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc . " Many are intrigued by it , perhaps baffled , others respond positively , some clearly are infuriated . None can ignore it . If one of the functions of art is to challenge our assumptions about our relationship to our daily environment , then " Tilted Arc " must be judged a success . This hearing , in a very real sense , is NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 240 2 evidence of that . This hearing , however , is 3 5 6 also evidence of something much more disturbing . It is an attack on the Art- in-Architecture Program whose every guideline was followed in the selection of Mr. Serra , the commissioning of the work and the installation of the work . 7 This hearing is an attack on the work 8 9 10 itself as the proposal for its removal is an ill disguised attempt to destroy it . 11 12 13 Others have already spoken of sitespecific sculpture and its totally integral connection with the space it occupies . Legal 14 15 considerations aside , the effort to remove this sculpture is a clear- cut attempt to establish a 16 policy totally destructive to the relationship 17 18 19 20000 between the federal government and the art community . This hearing seeks to substitute a process of; counting in the place of rational 21 and careful judgement . Others far more expert 22 than I have spoken of Richard Serra's world 23 wide reputation as one of the finest sculptors , 24 in fact , finest artist of his generation . 25 What I sincerely request this hearing NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 241 2 address is not aesthetic considerations , which 3 by its own admission is incapable of determining , 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 but an issue very much within its providence . The relationship of the government of the United States to those who make art and in turn to all of us who as members of the community at large enjoy and benefit from the art in our midst . In my examination of the lives of some of the greatest American artists , whose productive careers began in the 1930s , I was constantly struck by the extraordinary role played in their lives by the WPA Federal Artists Program . 12 13 Artists unknown in their day were 14 15 literally kept alive by sums of money we would regard today as pitifully small . In return 16 17 they graced this country with works of art 18 19 20 many of which endure and are enjoyed to this day . Other works , however , were lost accidentally or purposely destroyed by bureaucrats who were 21 ignorant of their real worth. 2222 While ignorance is deplorable , stupidity 23 should most certainly be condemned . 24 25 And , the destruction of " Tilted Arc " by a determined minority proposing to speak for a presumed majNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 242 2 ority, would be an act of conscious stupidity . 3 Such an act of destruction would place the 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 federal government , the chief protector of intellictual and artistic freedom in this country , in the role of enemy of that freedom. Such an act of destruction would proclaim the proposition that all art , which is not pleasing , is in danger of a lynch mob . Richard Serra's sculpture in Federal 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2222 Plaza has demonstratively succeeded in performing one of arts most important tasks , to energize those who come into contact with it . Causing them to both consciously and unconsciously consider the nature of our relationship to the spaces we inhabit . The Art- in- Architecture Program has been an extraordinary friend of this process . I implore the General Services Administration to stand firm and uphold its commitments and , indeed , the word of the United States Government . MR . DIAMOND : (applause ) Thank you. MR . DIAMOND : Thank you very much . 23 24 Morris OrDover . 25 NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 243 2 3 4 MR . ORDOVER: Good afternoon . Morris OrDover . I am employee here at the building and I have been an employee in this building I am 5 for the past 13 years . I might add that this 6 is the first opportunity I have had to comment 7 about the architecture of this building including 8 the addition thereto that was put up facing 9 10 11 Broadway and I welcome this opportunity . I am here today to testify in favor of retaining " Tilted Arc" on display at this 12 federal building . I am not here to comment about 13 the aesthetics of the sculpture , but to discuss 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 art as a form of expression that is constitutionally protected . Art is liked or disliked according to individual taste . Art has evolved through many stages and periods throughout history . Those changes were not always popular or accepted by the general population . Yet, no one can dispute that our museums are filled with art that has survived public opinion . "Tilted Arc " represents an artistic expression and , further , represents an important period in modern art . It has been accepted by NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 2 GSA. 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 244 Were we to allow present public opinion to censor its display , we would be guilty of suppression of an art form. Had that happened in the past , would we be able to see all that we now can see in our museums ? Let us not be guilty of suppression of a form of speech . A suppression that we associate with totalitarian regimes around the world . Merely because it does not represent current majority 11 12 13 opinion . Thank you . MR . DIAMOND : Thank you . 14 15 ( applause ) 16 17 18 19 20 21 223 24 25 2 33 MR . DIAMOND : DeeDee Halleck . MS . HALLECK : I am a film maker and a television producer . My work has appeared on PBS and in Europe and Canada and I was once nominated for an Academy Award for one of my documentary films . I am also a producer of ; television which recently had a week; a month long installation at the Whitney Museum. Many years ago when the state's art councils and the National Endowment for the Arts NATION-WIDE REPORTINGCOVERAGE

245 1 2 were formed , there was a great deal of discussion 3 4 about the dangers of government intrusion into the artists process . I believe that there are dangers inher- 5 6 7 ent in this , however, I have been an ardent supporter of what I feel is the only safeguard 8 9 10 against those dangers . The sanctity of the selection process and peer involvement on every level of the funding and implementation of government monies to artists . As a past president of the Association of Independent Video and Film Makers , and as 11 12 13 14 trustee of the American Film Institute , I have 15 seen the pressures and difficulties inherent 16 17 in organizational support for artists . grantee from the New York Council on the Arts , As a 18 19 from National Endowment for the Arts and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting , from 20 20 Creative Arts Public Service and from the New York Council of the Humanities I have also known the 21 arduous process of proposal writing , grant 22 23 24 2525 preparation and the long , long wait for grant selection . As a member of several selection NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 246 2 panels myself , I have also seen close up the 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 struggles to maintain fairness , discretion and responsibility that make panel membership one of the more tiresome duties of a successful film maker . In all of these roles , I have encountered many structural problems and occasional injustices , but as problematic , arduous and time consuming as the process is , it has and will remain the best insurance against mediocrity , banality and favoritism . It is this process which is under attack today . Serra's piece is a strong work of unquestioned artistic work . And , it is the forces of banality which are attacking it 16 17 today . MR . DIAMOND : 18 Thank you . 19 20 21 22 23 worth . 24 25 (applause ) MR . DIAMOND : Joseph Mack . MALE VOICE : He won't be here . MR. DIAMOND : Okay . Donald Thalacker . Four ( 4 ) minutes MR . THALACKER : Mr. Porter suggested NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE + 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 247 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 that if I needed or would like , I could have a little more . MR . DIAMOND : Sure . MR . THALACKER : Thank you . Good afternoon. My name is Donald Thalacker and I am the director of GSA's Art - inArchitecture Program. Quite frankly I am overwhelmed by the array of speakers heard today and by the list of 11 speakers for tomorrow and Friday . Clearly , you 12 13 14 are a civic minded group guided by a sense of noble principles and while I appreciate the kind and encouraging words on behalf of the Art - in- Architecture 15 Frogram, it is you who are to be applauded , part16 icularly the artists who have created works of 17 18 public art for the American people, Visitors from other countries and future generations . 19 20 It has simply amazed me that the artists have given so generously creating works which 21 far exceed in value the modest commission amounts 22 23 we have been able to offer and you should be pleased to know as it has been mentioned before , 24 25 that your effort , the artist's efforts resulted in the President's Award , the highest award in this NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE SBEEKMANSTREETSUITESULVARY

1 248 2 land offered presented just 34 days ago by 3 4 President Reagan for a decade of accomplishments of GSA's Art- in-Architecture Program. 5 That final jury which was headed by; cited GSA for its " intelligent willingless to 6 sustain potential risks in the selection of artists . " 7 8 Concluding by saying that , " installations that 9 10 11 may have been judged by the press , critics and others to be difficult to comprehend are to be expected in such a courageous program and should be interpreted as an index for its continuing 12 13 14 vitality . ' 11 We have at GSA in Washington a resident 15 historian named Corell Yasco , who is a fellow of American Institute of Architects . Several 16 17 18 weeks ago I said to Corell , I asked him about the historical precedent of art work removal or 19 relocation . After researching the matter , he 20 21 responded by giving me a copy of the official hearing report on the Renkin Annex Murals in 22 San Francisco and , Bill , those are the 23 24 2522 335 testimonies I just turned in to you, the hearing was held on May 1st , 1953 before the US House of Representatives Sub- committee on Public Buildings and NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 249 2 Grounds Committee on Public Works , which I 3 wish to submit that full 87 page report as 4 5 part of the official testimony for today's record . Along with the following brief remarks by Mr. 6 7 8 Yasco who is unfortunately in the hospital undergoing heart surgery today and cannot be here. His remarks sum up the result of that 1953 hearing . " After an all day hearing with 9 10 countless witnesses on both sides , the hearing 11 was closed at 4:20 p.m. , without any action being 12 taken and a resolution to remove the murals was 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 allowed to die . Nevertheless , because of the failure to win approval , the incident has been used by GSA legal counsel as the precedent to not remove any art work because of critical objections from individuals or groups . Where the art works have been removed or relocated it has been because the walls are 2221 being removed or the building is being razed , 22 23 24 25 but never because of critical objections , nor have any of the works been given away . They always remain a property of the federal government . " Signed Corell Yasco . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 250 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 In closing , I would like to suggest that it is for one from Washington , D. C. , refreshing to be talking passionately about art and to be expanding my understanding as I learn from others , you who have testified today and I presume the coming two ( 2 ) days , more about this particular work of art . 9 As a matter of fact , in my position 10 I have been able to read most of the letters 11 12 13 that have been submitted and was particularly struck through a learning experience by a professor of music named Alvin Lucier from Wesleyian 14 University , Middletown , Connecticut , who wrote 15 on February 28th I recently made some acoustic 16 tests of the sound reflecting characteristics of " Tilted 17 18 19 2020 21 Arc " with handheld pulse wave oscillators . Short bursts of sound were aimed at various points along the surface of the arc causing them to bounce off it at various nearby buildings . The pulses ricochetted from the curve 22 23 of the arc to the glass windows and outer walls of the government buildings and back to the sculp24 ture creating multiple echos . The plaza rang 25 with sound . Sound waves are similar to light waves NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 251 2 3 4 5 at least in the reflective properties and a definitive mapping of the structure was possible . The results were beautiful . Where a piece of baroque sculpture difuses sound waves , Serra's 6 7 Arc " clarifies . 8 9 10 11 12136 arc focuses them. Where the former blurs , " Tilted The results lead me to believe that the plaza due to the presence of the Serra sculpture , is a lovely environment for new music . It even serves to block out certain amounts of traffic noise . I would , if asked , be delighted to perform a musical work there . " I sense that art history is being made 14 today and I thank you , and you , for being a part of it . 15 MR . DIAMOND : Thank you. 16 17 18 1920 20 21 222 23 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : I think that I expressed the feelings of the panel to congratulate you, Donald , on the job that you have done for the Art - in-Architecture Program , which this panel strongly supports and would you please convey to Corell our very best wishes for a speedy recovery . 24 25 Barbara Jacobson . NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET. SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 252 2 MS . JACOBSON : I am Barbara Jacobson . 3 4 I'm trustee of the Museum of Modern Art and a board member of the Architectural League of New York and a writer about art and architecture . 5 6 I have deduced from examining the givence of the issue facing us today a series of 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 assumptions about the current relationship between government agencys such as the one seeking to exercise its power here , and the artist . First , that it was deemed desirable by the bureaucracy and; was deemed desirable and the bureaucracy was created to employ the artist in the service of the state . That the inclusion of artifacts as a culture in the public domain serves not only 16 to enhance the environment into which they are 17 18 192020 21 22 23 242525 placed, but reflects favorably on the enlightened attitudes of those in office . That the authority of agencys such as the GSA is reinforced by the appointment of right-thinking experts to decide how art and the artist may be enlisted to further its goals . And, that the decisions of these appointed bodies because they are rationally arrived at , are correct NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038

1 253 The process in operations such as this 2 and not open to later question . 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16117 18 192020 21 2222 23 24 25 implies agreements that go far beyond the written contracts . It denotes an act of faith and acceptance on the part of the artist , Richard Serra , in this case . A belief that the system is not out to betray him. Implied as well is an ethic of reciprocal relations between the government and the artist about his role informing the city . Based on received ideas of urbanism generated in Europe during the 18th and 19th centurys . I use words like faith and ethic for in affect , neither of the artist nor the architect has ever worked inside the power structure . The task assigned to them in determining the spacial configuration of the modern city a task which is undertaken in the assumption that their work will be considered as an expression. of personal ideals as they relate to those of the society , grants them only an illusory control of history . We showed Fuco ( phonetic ) the late French philospher and social theorist , astutely NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 нег 212/964-7589

1 254 2 3 perceived that the liberty of men is never assured them by the institutions and laws that are intended to guarantee them. This is why almost all of these laws 5 6 7 8 9 and institutions are quite capable of being turned around. Not because they are ambiguous , but simply because liberty is what must be exercised . Will the GSA take liberty with Richard 10 Serra's " Tilted Arc ? " 11 MR . DIAMOND : I sincerely hope not . Thank you . 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : David Shapiro . MR . SHAPIRO : I am professor David Shapiro . I am a ; visiting professor of architecture at Cooper Union . I have taught at Columbia University and Princeton University and elsewhere . I am a member of the International Art Critics Association , the author of many volumes in art and literature , formerly editorial associate in news and have written on Mr. Serra's brilliant , beautiful sculpture in relation to his work at ; in 1977 . I am appalled by government censorship concerning Richard Serra's sculpture , " Tilted Arc . " NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 255 If you torn down the eagle as arbitrarily , The government contracts specifically states that Mr. Serra's 2 3 I would try to come here , too . 4 5 6 ས7 8 9 10 11 sculpture will not be destroyed and a work of such indominantable specificity will be destroyed if disentangled from the urban context . Mr. Serra's work is amongst the most significant sculptures of the last few decades . He was commissioned and approved of in a laborious democratic process in which his designs were known . It's particularly chilling to observe the government declare a public hearing on his work to 12 13 14 force the sculptor and friends to defend its 15 art in public before a bureaucratic agency which 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 has declared at least as reported in the Times that it is already considering the demolition of the sculpture . There are some embittering features here . Workers are declared to be unhappy with the sculpture , but we all know that the piece is in a public space and is enjoyed by thousands or more who have in no way been polled . Mr. Serra's work is challenging and in no way less difficult say than the original NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 NEW YORK, NY 10038 1212/964-7589

1 256 2 3 Eiffel Tower, which was also protested against both by artists and laypublic as a brutal mass 1 of metal . 4 5 6 Can you imagine if the; had been relocated by a benovolent bureaucracy to an cut post in; because a few corrupt philistines 7 8 in power did not comprehend it? It's plain to many that the displacement of Mr. Serra's 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 work does not come from an honest attempt to mediate with the community.as is alleged , but is a symptom of cowardice and fear , is a blind and blinding capitulation to the few . Art by consensus has gotten us something . The Soviet version of socialist realism. I am bemused by how many yield in theie arguments to what I call a false popularism that has lead elsewhere to a vicious end of art . As an art historian and as a poet , I am aware and I teach , that the history of public monuments in our time like the history of the banning of books , is an ironic one of shocking prosecutions and the desecrations of dynamic and challenging works of art . The WPA project , which has been mentioned NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE

1 257 2 here today , ended with the shocking and wholesale 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 vandalism and destruction of many great works of art . What we are doing here today is serious . Many scholars will be able to testify hardly ; monument will have survived the test of the mean sort of false sociology parading today as a true aesthetic . I believe that the strongest defense of Mr. Serra today comes from the international community of artists influenced by him and supporting him. According to our mostly unused democratic principles , such as equal justice under the law, Mr. Serra's freedom of expression must be vigorously defended . He is a kind of minority as are all artists in this society , sadly , and even more must his rights be respected and his work fairly tolerated . The government has not shown itself to be faithful to its contract , nor fair . The 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 rid of difficult or challenging art . 24 Serra , our most strenuous sculptor , has created here and elsewhere significant urban contribu- 25 government also does not exhibit itself as popular until someone in office decides to get Mr.

1 258 2 tion . The wall is beautiful . 3 4 Our city notoriously is poor in public monuments , had better welcome such works than 5 exile it , otherwise one will be forced to visit 6 7 museums and plazas abroad , I hope you all have the salaries to do it , to enjoy works of American 8 art . 9 10 11 12 13 This would be the most callous way of disseminating our culture . will applaud this governmental aesthetics by prevention . In conclusion let me add that our culture is in a pathological state when works of Only; authoritarians 14 15 art must be defended before coercive tribunals . 16 I am, however , proud to defend and praise the 17 18 artist's right in such a case since there are no rights which we do not defend . Thank you. 19 (applause ) 20 MR. DIAMOND : Thank you , Mr. Shapiro . 21 Daryl Harnish . 22 23 24 25 MS . HARNISH : I am Daryl Harnish , director of Gallery; New York City . We are here to defend something which should need no defense . What is on trial here is freedom of artistic expression NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE S BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038

259 1 in America . Our government's seemingly new 2 3 4 5 6 7 relationship to art and culture and mostly the New York City's GSA's irresponsibility to law. We should realize that if this issue is unsuccessfully resolved , the dangerous precedent it will set . Every public work of art in the United 8 9 States since 1776 can become endangered . It will 10 mean nothing is permanent and there is not trust 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 in government . We should have laws similar to those that exist in European countries which protect works of art for posterity and prevent a situation like this from even occurring . We owe it to ourselves and future generations to preserve our national heritage . It is embarrassing for us that this is happening in America , happening in New York presumably the most enlightened and cultural place in the world . What should be resolved here is that this should never happen again . We are here to defend the right of Richard Serra's " Tilted Arc" to exist . A work 22 23 24 25 of art which was sought for and committed to NATION-WIDEREPORTINGCOVERAGE

1 260 2 3 4 through a scrupulous and democratic process . A process critical to our private beliefs and to our political system. The same democratic foundations on 5 6 which America was built . Despite this , Richard Serra has become a scapegoat for the GSA's 7 desire to cancel a commitment . He is more the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 offended than the offender . For the very reasons Serra was selected , he is now being brought to bear in public . He was selected in part because of his unique and ingenius way of altering spaces . For his ability to make the viewer aware of the volumetrics of space . For the notion of sitespecificity , which he helped brilliantly to develop . As all areat art must do , it changes 16 17 18 our perceptions and understanding . The greatest 19 20 21 2222 23 24 25 art has always been the most difficult to perceive . We must learn to understand , not simply to remove what is bothersome . What we see here is the government's susceptibility to taste . If this is the precedent , it raises the question of what will happen if under the next administration , they will want it NATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK, NY 10038 མཎཱ 1 261 2 back and so on and so on . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Art is created for permanence especially site - specific work . Especially and more critically when it was by contract with the United States Government . As an art dealer , I work with the private sector . private sector's fashionable money grows more Left to its own devices the and more powerful , therefore , the government's commitment to art must be even stronger and more reliable . It must set the example in supporting art of the highest quality and integrity and provide a climate of freedom of expression and tolerance . We know creativity and invention thrive in an atmosphere of freedom. A freedom only the government can champion and protect . If by their decision , the government undermines our confidence in it , we must ask what will be its affect on American culture? One of our most treasured and valuable assets . We must not allow the government to breach its commitments . We cannot allow the government to set this precedent of artistic censorNATION-WIDE REPORTING COVERAGE 5 BEEKMAN STREET, SUITE 311 • NEW YORK , NY 10038 212/964-7589

1 262 2 ship . Thank you . 3 4 5 ( applause ) MR . DIAMOND : This brings to the end all of the listed speakers for today . Unless there is any objection from 6 anyone that really feels that they must speak 7 8 and have not been heard before , we can start 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1910 20 21 2 23 22 24 25 2 335 tomorrow at 10:00 where we have a full list . Is that ; is that clear? Okay , we look ; it's after 4:00 now . Well , we will be happy to schedule Commissioner Myerson tomorrow morning first thing and we thank you very much . of f the record . (Off the record) (Whereupon , the hearing in this matter was adjourned . )

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 CERTIFICATE I do hereby certify : That I was present at the above proceeding and made a verbatim record of everything spoken except as directed by the Hearing Officer presiding . 11 That the foregoing pages are a true and complete transcript of the record made by me in my capacity 12 13 14 as Reporter .

See also

• Art in Architecture
• General Services Administration
• Arc
• Public art
• Tilt
• Visual Artists Rights Act
• Paper Tiger Television